Forum:Lower=yes or similar parameter for Items
From Fallen London Wiki
Forums: Index > Project Discussion > Lower=yes or similar parameter for Items
Lower=yes or similar parameter for Items[edit]
Sometimes items are not unlock requirements, but are nevertheless lost in the progress of a story. For example, 
Unlikely Connections are lost when you 
Put everything back where you found it. More recently, the 
Living Shell of Regret is lost in Deliver the Living Shell of Regret, despite not being strictly mechanically required via Unlock.
Currently, to see this, you need to go to the Loses property of said item. That means that in a sense, you cannot see what it is used for. What would be a good solution for that? - -- RagCall (talk) 16:11, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
- I'm not sure but I'd like to point out one other noteworthy place where this is the case, namely, several Discordant Ripples cards don't require you to have any of a particular item but do cause X amount of that item to be lost if it is in your possession. Kislev (talk) 18:46, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
- Like Category:Incisive Observation Loss? Aximillio (talk) 19:11, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
- Incisive Observation is not quite example for what I mean, because those Loss actions are also unlocked with Incisive Observations. I mean examples like Kislev said: "If you have it, you lose it, but you can play the Action even if you do not have it". Off the top of my head, other examples would be Whitsun Augmentations like Sly Augmentation/Category:Sly Augmentation Loss. All Augmentations are lost when the egg hatches, but the Sly Augmentation page has no links to the actions which are in Category:Sly Augmentation Loss. I would like to see this remedied, either by having the category linked, or its SMW equivalent via Property:Loses.
This thread concerns discussion about which of these options makes the most sense, and possibly how the SMW query may need to be refined to not cause too much overlap with with "Actions which use [item name]". -- RagCall (talk) 21:55, 23 June 2022 (UTC)- SMW can't query for the "loss-without-use" cases because you can't query for the absence of a property (or category). It won't be able to tell you when it happens, and when it does happen SMW on its own won't be able to filter the Loss category by those without corresponding Uses. The best you can get is returning the Loses and Uses sets separately, and someone doing a set-diff on them, which is unlikely to be pretty.
It would be quite easy to passLower=yesas a manual argument, and have that point to a category page or {{Property category}} page for Loses. This would comingle Used and Un-Used Loses.
- PSGarak (talk) 15:03, 24 June 2022 (UTC)
- SMW can't query for the "loss-without-use" cases because you can't query for the absence of a property (or category). It won't be able to tell you when it happens, and when it does happen SMW on its own won't be able to filter the Loss category by those without corresponding Uses. The best you can get is returning the Loses and Uses sets separately, and someone doing a set-diff on them, which is unlikely to be pretty.
- Incisive Observation is not quite example for what I mean, because those Loss actions are also unlocked with Incisive Observations. I mean examples like Kislev said: "If you have it, you lose it, but you can play the Action even if you do not have it". Off the top of my head, other examples would be Whitsun Augmentations like Sly Augmentation/Category:Sly Augmentation Loss. All Augmentations are lost when the egg hatches, but the Sly Augmentation page has no links to the actions which are in Category:Sly Augmentation Loss. I would like to see this remedied, either by having the category linked, or its SMW equivalent via Property:Loses.
