Money-Making/Calculations

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The purpose of this page is to store calculations, scratch-work, and open questions related to the grinds described in Money-Making and Hinterland Scrip-Making. Ideally, EPAs in those guides should be explained here.

Helicon House[edit]

Calculations for various Helicon House grinds.

Any references to "free entry" mean any of the Amber red.png A Pendant of Helicon Amber, Mirrormonster2.png Oneiric Key, or Stalagmite.png Location of an Underground Organ. All three of these methods allow entry into Helicon House without paying a cover charge, and additionally provide Door.png 2 x Fitting in at Helicon House to start. The latter is often more important, as it saves actions.

Helicon-Only Fate-Locked Casing Grind[edit]

Run through Helicon House once, grinding Mask.png Casing... while inside, and grabbing Bread.png Crate of Incorruptible Biscuits on the way out. Then enter Helicon House a second time, immediately cashing in the Mask.png Casing... for Scrip. Requirements:

The Amber red.png A Pendant of Helicon Amber saves an action on the first leg by entering at Door.png Time Remaining at Helicon House 4 instead of 5. The second leg can be done in 2 actions by entering with Door.png 3 x Fitting in at Helicon House, which requires 2 from any of the "free entry" methods plus 1 from the choice of Envelope.png Helicon House Companion. While the Pendant can be used for the second leg, the Mirrormonster2.png Oneiric Key is better because it provides Heart.png 5 x Romantic Notion and the different in Door.png Time Remaining does not affect that leg.

Stage in the Grind Actions per Cycle Cycles Total Actions Cost Payout
Building Casing 5 1 5 N/A Mask.png 15 CP Casing...

Follow.png 15 CP Investigating...
Bread.png 5 x Crate of Incorruptible Biscuits
Waxjartc.png 4 x Pot of Venison Marrow

Cashing in Casing 2 1 2 Mask.png 15 CP Casing... Currency3 copper.png 26

Moonpearl.png 25 x Moon-Pearl
Honey.png 10 x Drop of Prisoner's Honey

Total 7 Currency3 copper.png 55 (7.85 SPA)

Icon-echo.png 0.45 + Icon-echo.png 27.94 in Scrip (4.05 EPA)

The payout can be increased by Heart.png 5 x Romantic Notion per cycle by entering with an Mirrormonster2.png Oneiric Key the second time. While the Follow.png Investigating... does not have much value, the cycle could potentially build Roseyellow.png Fascinating... at +5 CP per cycle based on the choice of Envelope.png Helicon House Companion for the first leg.

If you do not have access to a Fitting In companion, then you must spend an extra action doing something in Helicon House that grants a point of Fitting In. Building Casing is one such action. Using this action means that the second leg takes 3 actions, but only uses up 10 net points of Casing.

Stage in the Grind Actions per Cycle Cycles Total Actions Cost Payout
Building Casing 5 2 10 N/A Mask.png 30 CP Casing...

Follow.png 30 CP Investigating...
Bread.png 10 x Crate of Incorruptible Biscuits
Waxjartc.png 8 x Pot of Venison Marrow

Cashing in Casing 3 3 9 Mask.png 30 CP Casing... Follow.png 15 CP Investigating...

Currency3 copper.png 78
Moonpearl.png 75 x Moon-Pearl
Honey.png 30 x Drop of Prisoner's Honey

Total 19 Currency3 copper.png 136 (7.16 SPA)

Icon-echo.png 1.35 + Icon-echo.png 69.08 in Scrip (3.71 EPA)

Helicon-Only, Fate-Locked, Spouse-Locked Casing Grind[edit]

This grind generally resembles the one above, except that your choice of Companion for the first leg gives you additional Casing on entry. The amount of casing makes for very awkward numbers. Requirements:

Stage in the Grind Actions per Cycle Cycles Total Actions Cost Payout
Building Casing 5 15 75 N/A Mask.png 285 CP Casing...

Follow.png 225 CP Investigating...
Bread.png 75 x Crate of Incorruptible Biscuits
Waxjartc.png 60 x Pot of Venison Marrow

Cashing in Casing 2 19 38 Mask.png 285 CP Casing... Currency3 copper.png is 494

Moonpearl.png 475 x Moon-Pearl
Honey.png 190 x Drop of Prisoner's Honey

Total 113 Currency3 copper.png 929 (8.22 SPA)

Icon-echo.png 8.55 + Icon-echo.png 471.93 in Scrip (4.25 EPA)

While this grind has the most exclusive requirements, it is the most profitable.

Helicon-Only Fate-Free Casing Grind[edit]

This works very similarly to the above grind, but you must spend an extra action in Helicon House grinding Mask.png Casing.... Because of this, the cycles don't line up neatly. The optimal exit while building Mask.png Casing... is now to acquire solacefruit, as that yields Currency3 copper.png 29 (with a Envelope.png Helicon House Companion that gives Door.png Fitting In; 7/2 = 3.5, which rounds to Cherries.png 4 x Solacefruit); this requires Diamondblue.png Train Luxuries 4, of course. As cashing in Mask.png Casing... only requires 15 CP, this version of the grind is straightforward.

Requirements:

Stage in the Grind Actions per Cycle Cycles Total Actions Cost Payout (Biscuits) Payout (Solacefruit)
Building Casing 6 1 6 N/A Mask.png 15 CP Casing...

Follow.png 20 CP Investigating...
Bread.png 4 x Crate of Incorruptible Biscuits
Waxjartc.png 5 x Pot of Venison Marrow
Heart.png 5 x Romantic Notion

Mask.png 15 CP Casing...

Follow.png 20 CP Investigating...
Mushroom2.png 25 x Hand-picked Peppercaps
Cherries.png 4 x Solacefruit
Heart.png 5 x Romantic Notion

Cashing in Casing 2 1 2 Mask.png 15 CP Casing... Currency3 copper.png 26

Moonpearl.png 25 x Moon-Pearl
Honey.png 10 x Drop of Prisoner's Honey
Heart.png 5 x Romantic Notion

Currency3 copper.png 26

Moonpearl.png 25 x Moon-Pearl
Honey.png 10 x Drop of Prisoner's Honey
Heart.png 5 x Romantic Notion

Total 8 Currency3 copper.png 52 (6.5 SPA)

Icon-echo.png 1.45 + Icon-echo.png 26.416 in Scrip (3.48 EPA)

Currency3 copper.png 55 (6.875 SPA)

Icon-echo.png 1.45 + Icon-echo.png 27.94 in Scrip (3.67 EPA)

The above assumes entering with the Mirrormonster2.png Oneiric Key, which gives Heart.png 5 x Romantic Notion. The Stalagmite.png Location of an Underground Organ gives Amber red.png Nodule of Warm Amber instead, which is nominally worth the same but more difficult to spend.

If you do not have access to a Fitting In companion, then you must spend an extra action doing something in Helicon House that grants a point of Fitting In. Building Casing is one such action. Using this action means that the second leg takes 3 actions, and yields an extra 3 CP Mask.png Casing.... Thus, an extra cashing-in cycle is needed for every 4 cashing-in cycles. Additionally, one fewer Cherries.png Solacefruit per building Casing cycle is gained due to the effect of rounding (which ends up reducing the overall yield by an additional ~0.05 EPA).

Stage in the Grind Actions per Cycle Cycles Total Actions Cost Payout (Biscuits) Payout (Solacefruit)
Building Casing 6 4 24 N/A Mask.png 60 CP Casing...

Follow.png 80 CP Investigating...
Bread.png 16 x Crate of Incorruptible Biscuits
Waxjartc.png 20 x Pot of Venison Marrow
Heart.png 20 x Romantic Notion

Mask.png 60 CP Casing...

Follow.png 80 CP Investigating...
Mushroom2.png 100 x Hand-picked Peppercaps
Cherries.png 12 x Solacefruit
Heart.png 20 x Romantic Notion

Cashing in Casing 3 5 15 Mask.png 75 CP Casing...
(includes 15 CP from the 5 cycles)
Currency3 copper.png 130

Moonpearl.png 125 x Moon-Pearl
Honey.png 50 x Drop of Prisoner's Honey
Heart.png 25 x Romantic Notion

Currency3 copper.png 130

Moonpearl.png 125 x Moon-Pearl
Honey.png 50 x Drop of Prisoner's Honey
Heart.png 25 x Romantic Notion

Total 39 Currency3 copper.png 230 (5.897 SPA)

Icon-echo.png 6.75 + Icon-echo.png 116.84 in Scrip (3.17 EPA)

Currency3 copper.png 242 (6.205 SPA)

Icon-echo.png 6.75 + Icon-echo.png 122.936 in Scrip (3.33 EPA)

Additionally, if you've been gaining Roseyellow.png Fascinating... upon entrance (default with no companion is +2 CP each time), then you can eventually make use of Attract a companion for the rest of the evening, yielding Icon-echo.png 70 in items at the cost of an extra 4 actions. Doing this after 10 complete cycles without a Fitting In companion raises the overall payout to 3.47 EPA (when using the solacefruit option).

Parabolan Casing grind (Obsolete)[edit]

Wiki note: This source of Casing was nerfed 13 Jan 2021. This contained is retained for historical archives. Updated HPA/EPA are included at the bottom.

Grind Mask.png Casing... in Parabola, and then spend in Helicon House. Requirements:

Building Mask.png Casing... from Find the weakness in an opponent's defences takes 4 actions on average if you have either Sidebarshadowy.png 285 Shadowy or Mirror.png 12 Glasswork. With only a single-stage hunt, the value of Apply your own knowledge is reduced. Choosing to sneak forward will usually take fewer actions, although it will also incur Sidebarnightmares.png Nightmares.

Cashing in via Lay claim to any left-behind items can be done immediately upon entry if you can enter Helicon House with Door.png 3 x Fitting in at Helicon House, which is possible by combining 2 points from any "free entry" option with a Envelope.png Helicon House Companion that grants a third point. While the Amber red.png A Pendant of Helicon Amber will work for this, it's not the best option. The Mirrormonster2.png Oneiric Key grants Heart.png 5 x Romantic Notion on entry, and the difference in Door.png Time Remaining at Helicon House does not effect the grind.

Stage in the Grind Actions per Cycle Cycles Total Actions Cost Payout
Grind Casing in Parabola 4 3 12 N/A Mask.png 150 CP Casing...
Rob Dreamers in Helicon 2 10 20 Mask.png 150 CP Casing... Currency3 copper.png 260

Heart.png 50 x Romantic Notion
Moonpearl.png 250 x Moon-Pearl
Honey.png 100 x Drop of Prisoner's Honey

Total 32 Currency3 copper.png 260 (8.125 SPA)

Icon-echo.png 9.5 + Icon-echo.png 132 of scrip (4.42 EPA)

The Moonpearl.png Moon-Pearl and Honey.png Drop of Prisoner's Honey outcomes are averages. The above calculations ignore travel cost. Every round of travel will cost 4 actions, costing Honey.png 100 x Drop of Prisoner's Honey but providing Whisperedsecret.png 3 x Rumours of the Upper River (An Unattended Mirror may reduce the actions and Rumours by 1 each, and being a Silverer will halve the honey cost).

If you do not have access to a Fitting In companion, then you must spend an extra action doing something in Helicon House that grants a point of Fitting In. Building Casing is one such action. Using this action means that each run through Helicon House takes 3 actions, but only uses up 10 net points of Casing.

Stage in the Grind Actions per Cycle Cycles Total Actions Cost Payout
Grind Casing in Parabola 4 1 4 N/A Mask.png 50 CP Casing...
Rob Dreamers in Helicon 3 5 15 Mask.png 50 CP Casing... Currency3 copper.png 130

Heart.png 25 x Romantic Notion
Moonpearl.png 125 x Moon-Pearl
Honey.png 50 x Drop of Prisoner's Honey Follow.png 25 CP Investigating...

Total 19 Currency3 copper.png 130 (6.84 SPA)

Icon-echo.png 4.75 + Icon-echo.png 66 of scrip (3.72 EPA)

As building Casing takes only a small number of actions and more time is spent cashing it out, an extra action here significantly impacts the efficiency of the grind.

Post-Nerf[edit]

Stage in the Grind Actions per Cycle Cycles Total Actions Cost Payout
Grind Casing in Parabola 4 15 60 N/A Mask.png 420 CP Casing...
Rob Dreamers in Helicon 2 28 56 Mask.png 420 CP Casing... Currency3 copper.png 728

Heart.png 140 x Romantic Notion
Moonpearl.png 700 x Moon-Pearl
Honey.png 280 x Drop of Prisoner's Honey

Total 116 Currency3 copper.png 728 (6.28 SPA)

Icon-echo.png 26.60 + Icon-echo.png 370 of scrip (3.41 EPA)

With the Rubbery Cat[edit]

The option to deploy your Morally and Physically Flexible Rubbery Cat, earns more Casing per Action, but must be supplied with Mushroom2.png Hand-picked Peppercaps. Peppercaps can be obtained by occasionally swiping Solacefruit instead of Biscuits, with payout worth only 1 scrip less (free entry plus the Casing options will earn Door.png 6 x Fitting In).

However, it seems that cost of using up the Peppercaps is not worth the additional Casing provided. The table below assumes the Pendant and a Fitting In companion, but earns lower SPA than the cat-free grind above with similar requirements. From an aesthetic view, the different legs of this grind fail to line up in spectacular fashion: Peppercaps are earned in batches of 25 and spent in batches of 3, while Casing is earned in batches of 17 and spent in batches of 15.

Stage in the Grind Actions per Cycle Cycles Total Actions Cost Payout
Build Casing while Napping Biscuits 5 66 330 Mushroom2.png 198 x Hand-picked Peppercaps Mask.png 1122 CP Casing...

Follow.png 660 CP Investigating...
Bread.png 330 x Crate of Incorruptible Biscuits
Waxjartc.png 264 x Pot of Venison Marrow

Build Casing and Restock Peppercaps 5 9 45 Mushroom2.png 27 x Hand-picked Peppercaps Mask.png 153 CP Casing...

Follow.png 90 CP Investigating...
Mushroom2.png 225 x Hand-picked Peppercaps
Cherries.png 27 x Solacefruit

Rob Dreamers in Helicon 2 85 170 Mask.png 1275 CP Casing... Currency3 copper.png 2210

Heart.png 425 x Romantic Notion
Moonpearl.png 2125 x Moon-Pearl
Honey.png 850 x Drop of Prisoner's Honey
Follow.png 660 CP Investigating...

Total 545 Currency3 copper.png 4151 (7.62 SPA)

Icon-echo.png 80.75 + Icon-echo.png 2108 of scrip (4.02 EPA)