User talk:ZDee

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Welcome to Echo Bazaar Wiki![edit]

Hi, welcome to Fallen London Wiki! Thanks for your edit to the User:ZDee page.

Please leave me a message if I can help with anything!
Wikia (talk) 06:22, January 21, 2013 (UTC)

Links to the 'next step' of living stories[edit]

Heya. Not sure why you're taking out links to delayed storylets e.g. Return to the Dilmun Club . This is one of the cases where the wiki can be more helpful than the game.
Jemann (talk) 22:16, March 12, 2013 (UTC)

I didn't make the decision lightly! My purist side fought fiercely with my helper side and won. :-| Thought process: Since the success text tells players that "Something else will happen soon... don't worry. All shall be well and all manner of thing shall be well." alongside the clock icon, they would expect a time-delayed message. The "clock" mechanic is used occasionally throughout the early and mid game (most notably the four time-delayed attribute-raising qualities like "Recalling a dream of other places" and "A name built in blood"). By the time they can join the Dilmun Club at level 4, players would usually be familiar enough with the mechanic to know to wait for a message before they can proceed with the storyline.

If a wiki reader really wants to know what happens next or what they could/should do next, they can read the level 5 links in the "associating with Radical Academics" category page since the success text also informs the player that they've reached level 5.

Hrm, maybe we should make a "Something else will happen soon..." category page (with an explanation of the mechanic) for the time-delayed portions? I think the newest players are the ones most confused when they encounter it. I recall being a mix of disturbed and puzzled when I first read it.
ZDee (talk) 23:10, March 12, 2013 (UTC)
Yeah, I'm not sure of the best solution. Most of these actions have dropped the 'something else will happen soon' message, which makes the process more opaque than it used to be (see the edit I just made to Decipher graffiti for the current language).

OK, a decision: when the game gives you a quality that's linked to the next stage of the story, we don't need to document it (although one could, in a format that's evidently by the wiki authors rather than part of the in-game result). When there's no obvious link to the 'next step' (e.g. Decipher graffiti and the other three low-level attribute advancement storylets), we should link to it. Does that seem reasonable?
Jemann (talk) 01:20, March 13, 2013 (UTC)
Sure, I suppose we could say something like (Wiki Note: This eventually leads to [link of next step]) under the "living story" message.

* chin scritch* Are all these time-delayed event precursors going to be tagged with "A living story will begin soon" in the game? That is definitely more vague than "Something else will happen soon..." but it does have a better narrative tone. Since we already have a Living Stories category page, I'll just add a short explanation of the game mechanic there for curious readers. We should start linking the "A living story will begin soon" text to the Living Stories category.

EDIT: Added a description to

Rereading it, I have my doubts. Maybe a blunt and technical description would have been better?
ZDee (talk) 12:55, March 13, 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for doing that. I made some slight edits, but it seems OK to me. Blunt and technical is for other games; FL players like to read!
Jemann (talk) 13:44, March 13, 2013 (UTC)
* side glance* Well, my biggest doubt is calling them "Living Stories". XD

I wrote "These are stories that come to life as time passes" but I only got that feeling from the new Raven Advisor story branches. It's a glorified description for a simple time-delayed mechanism, heh. Well, I'm still looking forward to more Living Stories. Maybe the FL mechanics for them will become more entertaining and convoluted in the future.

I leave to you, our star editor, the all-important task of updating every Living Stories-related page. I...I...shall sit on my arse and refresh my FL screen every 30 seconds to collect Sidebar Snippets! Ha, I'm working so hard today.
ZDee (talk) 14:01, March 13, 2013 (UTC)
No! Not me! Busy!! Terribly busy!!! ... well, maybe.
Jemann (talk) 23:33, March 13, 2013 (UTC)
* dons janitor uniform and wields broom* Someone's gotta clean up the links around here! (Besides, it's only three or four pages...for now.)

I'm wondering about the result text:

You weren't given the "Recalling a Dream of Other Places" quality?

"...The strangest dream..." isn't a quality? If it is one, is it a rename of "Recalling a Dream of Other Places"?

Did your character receive a Message with a link that leads to this page?

Note to Self: Check all the pages that say "Something else will happen soon..." to see if it's still used and to add the "Living Stories" tag.
ZDee (talk) 00:07, March 14, 2013 (UTC)
While waiting for the story to trigger, I don't appear to have that quality. When the wait is up, I get a message. Accepting it leaves me with the text:

I have had the strangest dream... An occurrence! Your 'Recalling a Dream of Other Places' Quality is now 2!

At that point, switching to the Story tab locks the character into the living storylet. Possibly if they're in the wrong location (out of London, in a state of menace) they can accept the message, gain the quality, but won't access the next storylet yet, thus avoiding a bug that tripped up many players.

I'll have to make note of what the text is before acceptance, and whether the quality (when it's temporarily gained) is still what it was. The tricksy bit is that the link between living story 'trigger' and later message is now invisible to the player.

Hope this is all clear. I find the mechanics of it quite interesting.
Jemann (talk) 00:28, March 14, 2013 (UTC)
Your quality leapt to 2! Does this mean all the attribute-raising options now unlock at 2? Maybe you invisibly acquired the quality at 1 when you received the success text with "...The strangest dream..."? Accepting the Message raised it to 2? It seems these pages will require restructuring?

I've been looking up the pages which state "Something else will happen soon" and now I realize I only have access to half the options. Even with attribute-lowering gear, my characters' stats are too high; I'm blocked from anything requiring stats below the 80's... *hint hint* If anyone else wants this vital mission, don't be shy.
ZDee (talk) 00:53, March 14, 2013 (UTC)
You can get to the Shadowy option at any level via Intercept another courier. Sadly there's still no equivalent route to the Dangerous option.
Jemann (talk) 01:05, March 14, 2013 (UTC)
Nah, I meant early game options like


I want to check their success text to see if "Something else will happen soon" is now "A living story will begin soon" (along with any other changes)...but I don't want to bother with making a new account merely to check those options! Hopefully, someone with a low-stat alt will come along soon to update the pages.
ZDee (talk) 01:18, March 14, 2013 (UTC)
Oh, do I archive this?

My low level alt received 3 living story messages 12 hours ago:

1) I have had the strangest dream... An occurrence! Your 'Recalling a Dream of Other Places' Quality is now 2!

With accompanying "invitation":

A Dream of Other Places

What was that curious dream? You wrote it here in your journal when you woke....

2) What have you seen in the shadows? Return to Fallen London to discover what awaits you in the darkness... An occurrence! Your 'That Which Waits in Shadow' Quality is now 2!

With accompanying "invitation":

A Life Unobserved

One can see all manner of things in the shadows, if one looks.

3) An admirer of my work wants to speak to me! An occurrence! Your 'the Subject of Admiring Attention' Quality is now 2!

With accompanying "invitation":

An enthusiastic admirer

'A word, I pray you!'

You can click "Perhaps Not" out of the invitations' linked storylets and play them again later if you wish.

Oddly enough, my Story Qualities now have "Recalling a Dream of Other Places 2", "That Which Waits in Shadow 2" and "the Subject of Admiring Attention 2". They definitely weren't there before -- at 1 or otherwise!
ZDee (talk) 11:09, April 7, 2013 (UTC)
The original versions set these qualities to 1 immediately, with the later message activating a storylet that would clear them. The new system sets these qualities to 2 after the same delay, enabling storylets that check the quality. I assume the first system was still around when they switched to the second, making it easier to use a different number rather than mess up the earlier version.

To answer the question: I'm not sure how to archive it either :)

# Original story - initiates living storylet
# Message after delay - works like an auto-storylet or card, with message + effects
# (Optional) Storylets using effects set up by step 2.

The Profession payment kind of follows this system now - step 2 gives you An Earnest of Payment) - although it seems to have a whole sequence of different step 2's activating at weekly intervals.
Jemann (talk) 12:13, April 7, 2013 (UTC)
The Profession payment system is better. It has a nearly universal storylet which appears at the top of the storylet column. If you don't check your Messages tab, you could unintentionally ignore the +Attribute "invitations" for days or weeks. I say "invitations"; they're more like hybrid storylet-invitations since you have to click the attached "GO" button to be directed to the linked storylet.

The StoryNexus inbox (white envelope on the orange navigation bar) isn't fully functioning yet. It says I have 0 messages when I know that's not the case!

Since these particular living stories are still being removed, re-released and updated, I won't rush to reorganize them. You and anyone else are welcome to try!
ZDee (talk) 12:41, April 7, 2013 (UTC)
"Combing two Shadowy increases (wasn't this the format we agreed on?)"

I forgot, sorry. Don't cut my pay!

I received the +Dangerous message:

Your reputation for courage is spreading! Return to discover what possibilities have opened to you. You've gained a reputation for violence.

With accompanying "invitation":

The Rough Parts of Town

'Excuse me? I'd like a little word.'

The Quality "A Name Written in Blood 2" suddenly appeared under the Story section. Unlike the other attribute messages, there's no mention of "An occurrence! Your 'blah blah' Quality is now 2!"
ZDee (talk) 11:20, April 10, 2013 (UTC)

Double dangerous is increasing.[edit]

"Someone should check which "Dangerous is increasing..." message is used in Success; we currently have 2"

This is because you gain one cp in addition to what you usually do. You could merge them and say (plus 1 bonus CP) or so, I guess.

(You *do* get 2 dangerous is increasing boxes when doing such storylets)
Aximillio (talk) 20:08, March 13, 2013 (UTC)

Ohhh, so it's one of those double stat-raising success texts! Thank you for the clarification. :) I even played that card yesterday and forgot about it, yeesh...*blush*
ZDee (talk) 20:19, March 13, 2013 (UTC)
That being said, what *is* the wiki standard for double increases? (I figure that could be nice to know =P)
Aximillio (talk) 20:22, March 13, 2013 (UTC)
Heck if I know... :P

It's quite obvious when you have two different attributes raised in the same result text. It's less than obvious when it's the same attribute raised twice. >_> If you're interested and willing, you could mark all of the related pages with a message like (Wiki Note: [Attribute] is raised twice.) in the success text.

EDIT: No, wait, we should consult Jemann. If things go well, we can take credit for it. If things go poorly, we can just blame Jemann. That's what he's around for, mwahaha. ;)
ZDee (talk) 20:32, March 13, 2013 (UTC)
I'll try to remember that if I find one.
Aximillio (talk) 20:34, March 13, 2013 (UTC)
* cough*Read my revised editorial advice above.*cough* We're professionals around here!
ZDee (talk) 20:43, March 13, 2013 (UTC)
That sounds like a good idea =P
Aximillio (talk) 20:48, March 13, 2013 (UTC)
I usually write

Dangerous is increasing... (extra +X CP);

does the 'extra' bit sound sufficiently explanatory for the casual reader? (+2 bonus CPs) may be better. I like concision.
Jemann (talk) 03:16, March 19, 2013 (UTC)
* taps chin* Hmm... No, I think both examples are too vague for our purposes. They don't make people instantly think Ahhh, so there are two increases in [Attribute]! Let's just add two messages and let the players sort it out for themselves; it's not a big issue and we rarely run into such situations. If we add different CP notes, it might help:

Shadowy is increasing...(1 CP)

Shadowy is increasing...(5 CP)

I'm inclined to use two messages since that's how FL presents them.
ZDee (talk) 03:54, March 19, 2013 (UTC)
The first CP note would be changing. Though I guess it might make more sense, then - specially when we don't know how many CP's are given?

I personally prefer (+2 bonus CPs)/(+some bonus CPs) to (extra +2 CP)/(Some extra CPs)

Either go for Bonus or for doubles, in my opinion.
Aximillio (talk) 09:15, March 19, 2013 (UTC)
This is the least fun wiki topic. Ever. :P

Shadowy is increasing...(1 CP)

Shadowy is increasing...again...(5 CP)

Is that any better?

If you guys really want to say this:

Dangerous is increasing...(1 CP) (+5 bonus CP)

I won't stop you.
ZDee (talk) 18:38, March 19, 2013 (UTC)
Well, I guess we could have an explanation at least, just so it doesn't look quite as strange. (Additional increase) behind the second could work, I guess.

Edit: (Bonus CP's *would* work oddly with The Duchess double-drop when sending boxes, I guess)

Connected:The Duchess has dropped...(-1 Bonus CP's)
Aximillio (talk) 18:40, March 19, 2013 (UTC)
That looks silly, LOL. In the case of sending Boxed Cats, I think the Wiki Note concept works best.

I'm also feeling inclined to edit my profile to say

Likes: receiving double attribute raises

Dislikes: recording double attribute raises

Anyhoo, you do point out something important: what do we do about double drops?

Persuasive is dropping...(1 CP)

Persuasive is dropping...(bonus 3 CP)

That doesn't read well. Switching "bonus" with "extra" also sounds bad. "Bonus" and "extra" are words with positive meanings; they're out of place when describing stat drops.

Let's try it the other way around with a stat we don't want rising:

Scandal is increasing...(1 CP) (+10 bonus CP)

What a lousy bonus!

I think Wiki Notes are the most flexible tools of explanation here.
ZDee (talk) 19:22, March 19, 2013 (UTC)
But but but the 'bonus' thing is only applied (so far) when a quality is tested - the first increase is the standard variable one (based on difficulty), the second one is a fixed amount (a bonus). Theoretically that second one could be negative, but it would be pretty bizarre. (The Duchess double-drop is a special case that looks fine as is).

So the standard one is

Watchful is increasing...

a fixed modifier is

Watchful is increasing... (2 CP)

and the two combined are

Watchful is increasing... (+2 bonus CPs)

I love that we have finally have a quorum of editors who are picky enough to have a debate over this. ('Picky' is the polite term).
Jemann (talk) 21:39, March 19, 2013 (UTC)
Bonus CPs for Watchful/Persuasive/Shadowy/Dangerous and Wiki notes for the rest, due to the way you gain xp in those stats with challenges?

On the up side, that also means we won't have to edit in the Dangerous ++ icons and such for all the bonuses?
Aximillio (talk) 21:53, March 19, 2013 (UTC)
My mind is going numb over this, so you guys win. x_x

+ Bonus CP for the 4 major attributes and our best judgment, Wiki Notes or otherwise, for any other cases.
ZDee (talk) 22:34, March 19, 2013 (UTC)
Yay, battered into exhaustion!

Generally I'm OK with formatting that at least conveys the important information, even when it's not quite the way I would do it; so best judgment is always good.

Yep, +X bonus CPs for the four main attributes, best judgment for others (listed separately or combined, with explanatory notes as necessary).

++ icons, what the hey now? They sound bad.
Jemann (talk) 22:41, March 19, 2013 (UTC)
@++ icons

I meant the icons and such we'd have to add in for every single double increase.

Hooray, now we can go on to ambitions - which ones do you have?
Aximillio (talk) 22:44, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

Entwined with Mr. Clathermoth[edit]

(Has "Visiting Clathermont's Tattoo Parlour" been renamed to "Entwined in the Intrigues of the Clathermont Family"? Entwined is the only Clathermont-related quality in my account.)

Yes it has, this is an additive storyline rather than pyramidical now, meaning you only need 1 card to increase from 3-4. Rewards have also been increased from 30 to 90 shrieks for at least some of the challenges. I'm not 100% certain this includes all of them, you think I should edit it in anyway? 11:53, March 14, 2013 (UTC)

Aximillio? Random reader? Ah, whoever you are, I'm glad you're here!

The entire "Visiting Clathermont's Tattoo Parlour" page needs to be overhauled! Actually, since it can't be renamed (I think? I don't see the option!), we should make a new category page and copy&paste all the important source code from the "Visiting" page over to the "Entwined" page. Then old links need to be replaced with new ones blah blah -- the most important thing is to make sure the descriptions and result texts are accurate. All my characters have already completed the Clathermont storyline, so I can't personally check...

"Rewards have also been increased from 30 to 90 shrieks for at least some of the challenges. I'm not 100% certain this includes all of them, you think I should edit it in anyway?"

Hrm, update all the sections that you remember/know well. If you're uncertain about a page, leave a comment stating what you think might have changed; that should work till someone else confirms it.

I didn't even notice Aximillio's notes in the Talk section of "Visiting" till now... I usually scroll down to read Comments and neglect to click the "Talk" button. I will pay more attention to it from now on. :X
ZDee (talk) 15:15, March 14, 2013 (UTC)
The anonymous contributer was in this case me, I just hadn't remembered to log in first. I think I remember reading a blog post stating that Categories can't be easily deleted/moved/etc., that could be why there's no option there.

On the 30->90 thing, I've only done a few of them after the change on an alt, and I don't remember exactly which I've had. Said alt now has 7, though, so I can't check much with it more (Though I'll see if I can cross-check with the latter ones, eventually).
Aximillio (talk) 16:04, March 14, 2013 (UTC)
I usually also just leave comments, but category pages and the like usually don't have them =P
Aximillio (talk) 16:18, March 14, 2013 (UTC)
Well, thanks for the new category page and other Entwined updates! :)

I, too, was playing through the later bits of the storyline when it was changed by FL a few months back. I only remember thinking Wow, I'm getting so many more Primordial Shrieks now! and that's it... Not very helpful, I know! They doubled and, in some cases, tripled the rewards. Maybe leave a note about it in the Talk section of the new Entwined category page?

More importantly, you threw your pet mandrake away?!

What did it ever do to you to deserve that?? ...Other than trying to kill you several times. I mean, yes, other than repeated attempts at homicide, what did it do wrong?! D: Poor guy. I'm very attached to my Half-Wild Mandrake, so I'm gonna hold onto it even if it kills me...once or twice...even 10 times is okay. :p Seriously, though, thanks for adding the CP. I was quite curious, but I would never test it myself.

"I usually also just leave comments, but category pages and the like usually don't have them =P"

I assumed we had Comments sections on category pages. ...I was wrong!
ZDee (talk) 16:32, March 14, 2013 (UTC)
It cluttered up my pet list (Nope, I don't care a lot about my pets unless they've got good stats, they've got a good card or they're like the Albino Rat and works as a memento); it was on alt which I can use for wiki related things without screwing my main (Main is HD, alts for LF and BL, and it would be stupid to have a seperate wikia acc for FL alts), and besides I wondered if it would clear up my hand down there (alas, it didn't - I still got the card for it without being able to use it...). 
Aximillio (talk) 16:58, March 14, 2013 (UTC)
[Scratch that. I don't believe Aximillio needs an invite :)]
Jemann (talk) 00:13, March 15, 2013 (UTC)
* tips hat* Thank you for your help; much obliged. :D
ZDee (talk) 00:27, March 15, 2013 (UTC)
[The Void consumed this post.]
ZDee (talk) 01:34, March 15, 2013 (UTC)

Jemann wrote:

[Scratch that. I don't believe Aximillio needs an invite :)]

[Unusual invite] is a clique invite? That could be interesting. I've already made a rubbery clique, but if it doesn't work out I could always join a different one =)

SN names are those on the orange bar: those are the ones you need to befriend (You can change this name on

(Post history FTW)
Aximillio (talk) 08:08, March 15, 2013 (UTC)
Well, perhaps I was wrong. Invite sent.
Jemann (talk) 09:40, March 15, 2013 (UTC)

Jemann wrote:

Well, perhaps I was wrong. Invite sent.

We shall see...
Aximillio (talk) 10:03, March 15, 2013 (UTC)


"Two of my characters received the Nightmares-curing Message. Is this a new and permanent feature for Earnest of Payment deliveries? An occasional one? If so, how is it triggered?"

I got this one as well. I guess it could be possible that the second Payment gets this or so? Anyway, it was timed very well, since i had just gotten 8+ nightmares from the Iron Republic and was planning on getting them down at Hunter's Keep. Guess I only have to reduce wounds/suspicion now. 

Though for all I know, I guess they could have changed it.
Aximillio (talk) 21:17, March 16, 2013 (UTC)

"In the revised Bible of the Neath, it is written in Proverbs: 'When you lie down, your name is forgotten. In the absence of names, yea, your sleep shall be sweet.' One of your contacts stumbled twice on your name yesterday. Is that why your sleep was so restful? Probably a coincidence." butt! It could be a rare success for Earnest of Payment deliveries, though it seems more likely to be trigged by a player's social action or such. I've been sending lots of Boxed Cats to players on my accounts during the past week. I've also been rereading my characters' FL journals and clicking the upper-right emerald "Descend Into Fallen London" button to get back to the game.

Or, heck, maybe we'll just get the Nightmare Cures message every week from now on. In which case, it would be inconvenient for some players who want to keep their Nightmares due to tasks they need to complete in a State of Confusion, Mirror Marches, Correspondence-related storylines or to chat with the Merry Gentleman.

Zeedee and one other character should be receiving their salaries within the next few hours. I wonder if they'll also get the nightmares cure. If not, then I'll suppose it is random.

EDIT: My other two characters were also sent the same message. ...Huh, mysterious!
ZDee (talk) 21:39, March 16, 2013 (UTC)
The day after, I got the normal one ("Practising a profession brings you something nice each week. Return to Fallen London to claim it. You now have 1 of this: 'An Earnest of Payment'")

I hadn't been able to cash in yesterday's due to being at zee.
Aximillio (talk) 10:43, March 17, 2013 (UTC)
So...waves of nightmate curing messages are released on different, possibly random, days? Yep, I'm as clueless as ever.
ZDee (talk) 15:00, March 17, 2013 (UTC)
New one:

It's been an energetic week in your Profession. You've rewarded yourself with something special: a feast of lumeshroom, smothered in onions and enlivened with Elder Continent spices. Something to fill you with vigour! You now have 1 of this: 'An Earnest of Payment' Your 'Wounds' Quality has gone!             
Aximillio (talk) 17:07, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

Let's record these messages in the item page of An Earnest of Payment from now on. *off to move the Nightmares message*
ZDee (talk) 18:42, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

A Dark Place?[edit]

Christmas 2010/2011 were the same, or very closely the same, I think ('Mr Sacks! Take me!')
Aximillio (talk) 12:18, March 29, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. :) I tagged it with Christmas 2010. Then what about A visit from Mr Sacks? Were the options also roughly the same? If yes, I guess indexing it with Christmas 2010 would be okay.
ZDee (talk) 21:54, March 29, 2013 (UTC)
I really can't remember to well much more than that. Another reason to record one-off events within reasonable time, I guess...
Aximillio (talk) 23:59, March 29, 2013 (UTC)
We're really on the ball these days. The Christmas 2012 content is nice and neat. When this year's Feast of the Exceptional Rose concluded with a limited sunshine storylet, a dozen editors climbed out of the woodwork to record it. I wasn't one of them... I was too preoccupied with hyperventilating to bother with recording anything decently. :-/ I will try to keep calm the next time I encounter timed events!
ZDee (talk) 00:41, March 30, 2013 (UTC)
I was too busy walking the avenues of Paris. Tough luck. (Though it was a really nice trip!)
Aximillio (talk) 00:57, March 30, 2013 (UTC)
That sounds wonderful! I'm glad you enjoyed your trip. :)

Since we're on the topic of Paris...what is with all these hints of the city in Wilmot's End? And this incident with the swan?? Was it a literal swan or a metaphorical swan??? Am I missing a cultural French reference about swans?! I'm exploring Wilmot's End for the first time with an alt and it's all very hushhush, incomplete sentences everywhere. I thought the allusions to Paris in FL were nods to the StoryNexus game Cabinet Noir, but now I'm not so sure... AND WHAT BLOODY SWAN?
ZDee (talk) 01:16, March 30, 2013 (UTC)
Cabinet Noir is a game set in a different place altogether. They don't connect AFAICT.

Firstly, I must admit I dislike Wilmot's end. I really can't stand

a) the low ppa

b) having to endure the constant pressure from the Great Game

c) the carousel system, so I've ended up either doing Enjoying Lethal Prominence (for training Dangerous - Dangerous has always been the last skill to cap for me, even though persuasive was 10 levels lower before last cap) or getting my Whirring Contraptions and Legal Documents in the Bazaar Sidestreets (For a Zubmarine - there's a reason I didn't get it before pretty much being stat-capped at 150...)

Secondly, seeing as French is my 3rd language, which I'm currently studying, I haven't set myself fully into the past culture yet. I haven't encountered too many swans in French though, so it's possible it's a British reference. Either way, France was one of the big powers in Europe around 1900, so it's not too surprising they've developed networks in the Great Game. Colonies and all, you know.
Aximillio (talk) 01:40, March 30, 2013 (UTC)
I thought Cabinet Noir connected in Nex-locked content if you pursued the supernatural path? That's my guess, though; I never bought those Nex-locked story branches. My memory's a bit hazy on this, but your CN character gets a mention of "some bad business in London" during the introductory storylets. I thought this was the CN nod back to FL for FL's nods to CN.

"Either way, France was one of the big powers in Europe around 1900, so it's not too surprising they've developed networks in the Great Game. Colonies and all, you know."

Yes, maybe they're merely references to the past rivalries of England and France for historical flavor and I'm overthinking it. This is the most plausible explanation. I'll stick with this theory!

My alt is spinning 'round the carousels for the sake of PoSI status. She needs a Whirring Contraption, a Legal Document, and Strong-Backed Labour to put together a Velocipede to impress the Ambitious Barrister. Using the Bazaar Side-streets' conversion options is so expensive! But considering how many loops I have to jump through to get those Velocipede ingredients in Wilmot's End, maybe I should have sucked it up and paid for them in the Side-streets? My alt also fails the Wilmot's End challenges 25% of the time. D:

I don't like Wilmot's End, either. These spies are the worst conversationalists! They come up to you, mumble something incoherent or vague, abruptly stop talking halfway through a sentence and then they walk away. Hmph, I hope they don't talk to their mothers like that!

Zeedee chose The Great Game as his alignment faction for the Spending Secrets story and I rather regret it. The Great Game is one of my least liked factions. When the Numismatrix asked me to choose a side, I wasn't familiar enough with the factions to make an informed choice; I wanted to continue the storyline so I immediately chose one, and The Great Game seemed like a good option at the time (secrets, money and power going hand-in-hand). If I had to do it again, I'd probably choose the Urchins. I can only hope FL releases the next portion of Spending Secrets soon, the one that allows us to change factions.
ZDee (talk) 03:02, March 30, 2013 (UTC)
I've chosen Tomb-Colonists, though Urchins and Rubbery Men would fit just as well. Of course, since Tomb-Colonies apparently are close to Hell, and since I've been trying for ages to kill my Connected:Hell (Failing to rob the embassy seems like the only option?), I should consider switching...

It's possible they're in the same universe, but CN is made primarily as a stand-alone game to show off StoryNexus, not in relation to Fallen London, I think. But I could obviously be wrong - I didn't do the Nex-locked branch either.

Strong-Backed Labour is easier gained with the Acacia and the butterfly or as a Rat-Catcher.

For the memories of light, I usually converted Tales of Terror!! and Compromising Documents from the Foreign Office.
Aximillio (talk) 14:46, March 30, 2013 (UTC)
You can drop to Connected: Hell 5 by always picking the anti-Hell options on the conflict cards Brimstone or frankincense? and The Devil and the Child.

You can also drop to Connected: Hell 3 by constantly choosing the option "Write a sharp note and send the flowers back" on the A devil's taken a shine to you card.

Then you can finish off the rest by failing to rob the Brass Embassy. :)

Yeah, I'm gonna stop mucking around in Wilmot's End for high end products. I'll make back the echo loss in Sidestreet conversions later.

Edit: Whoops, got Plan the raid for the Constables mixed up with Nobody would steal from it but you.
ZDee (talk) 15:29, March 30, 2013 (UTC)
Firstly, I'm already at Connected: 1 (I still have an impossible card showing up, however) A devil's taken a shine to you doesn't show up with 1 x Stain on your Soul. (This is an example where a locked with template could be convenient)

So yeah, let's rob the Embassy... And waste tons of casing points I could've spent on heists... Oh well.
Aximillio (talk) 16:05, March 30, 2013 (UTC)
Ah, that would match up with the requirements for starting the "An Intimate of Devils" storyline mentioned in Perhaps that doesn't sound so bad (5 FATE). Then there's probably another hidden unlock for that card, 1 x Your very own Infernal Contract.

EDIT: Oops, I meant to write "another hidden lock for that card", not "unlock".
ZDee (talk) 16:23, March 30, 2013 (UTC)
Yes, I think that was mentioned on the forums somewhere.

Also, locks don't show unless you're unable to play a card, whereas unlocks do. Locks which hide storylets/cards are a nuicance.
Aximillio (talk) 16:27, March 30, 2013 (UTC)

ZDee wrote:
Then you can finish off the rest by failing to rob the Brass Embassy. :)

I think I've tried this 3 times at 50% and succeeded all times...

But I shouldn't complain- it's good cash at that low casing =)
Aximillio (talk) 20:35, April 2, 2013 (UTC)
3x with 50% and 2x with 60% now, I think...
Aximillio (talk) 22:16, April 4, 2013 (UTC)
And you just know the next time you truly want to win at such carousels with 90% success, you'll fail 5 times in a row. ;)
ZDee (talk) 08:16, April 5, 2013 (UTC)
Aximillio (talk) 09:50, April 5, 2013 (UTC)

Item Use categories[edit]

So, after creating an action page (Consign it to the flames), I notice that both you and Aximillio added the Manuscript Page category to it. Let me be the minority vote, then.

The Item Use categories have been used to tag storylets and actions that are unlocked by that item, rather than actions that remove the item. In this case, the source storylet (Wreckage!) has the tag. It lets people check, e.g., whether an item they have has some future use, or can be safely sold. Tagging pages that deduct the item seems like over-categorization to me.
Jemann (talk) 05:03, April 3, 2013 (UTC)

I added the category "Manuscript Page" to the page Consign it to the flames before reading its History. It isn't a coup d'état, haha. I see your point. This entire time, I thought items were indexed so that people could view all the "You've lost 'Something'" pages. I thought the category was a completely self-explanatory one. As a user, I am interested in knowing which storylets or cards require an item as an Unlock, and I'm also interested in which actions use it up and how many. If I encounter a new item, I always skim the Uses and Sources pages to see how it's used and in what quantity along with how easily I can get more. Readers can generally assume that if they see a short list of Sources but a long list of Uses, they shouldn't sell the item for spare Echoes.

If the Unlock, Success or Failure mentions an item being needed, obtained, used or vanishing, I always add its category. This is how I mentally organize the game's messages:

Unlocked with 10 x Something

Needed but not necessarily Used; put in its category as "Something"

You've gained 5 x Something

Obtained; put in its category as "Something Sources"

You've lost 20 x Something

Used; put in its category as "Something"

You no longer have any of this: 'Something'

utterly Used & Vanished; put in its category as "Something"

The same goes for a quality vanishing:

Something' has been reset: a conclusion or a new beginning?

put in its category as "Something"

Your 'Something' Quality has gone!

put in its category as "Something"

If we ever need to rename, delete, or track down a certain item or quality, this makes things incredibly easier. You cannot fully rely on "What links here" from the My Tools editor navigation bar at the bottom. I know this from agonizing personal experience. People occasionally do not link or incorrectly link an item or quality in the success/failure descriptions; on the other hand, if they try to categorize something, they never fail at it or misspell it. Admittedly, they also occasionally misuse "Something" when they should have used "Something Sources" or vice versa, but that's the worst of it and easy to fix.

Heck, I do it for the area move message, too:

You've moved to a new area: 'Something

put in its category as "Something"

Everyone should do the same! You don't know how many hours I spent double checking and hunting down those Temporary Unlock links for the revised area pages! ...Neither do I, but it was A LOT!

Back to the issue in question, why don't we try a new system for differentiating between item use, unlock and lock? We could also do that for qualities. Ex: for Consign it to the flames, it would be "Manuscript Page", but its referral storylet Wreckage! would be "Manuscript Page Unlock".

Multiple purposes of "Your very own Infernal Contract":

"Your very own Infernal Contract" - item is used (er, vanishes) in Apply appropriate methodology

"Your very own Infernal Contract Sources" - item is obtained in Hear him out

"Your very own Infernal Contract Unlock" - item is needed as an unlock requirement in Just desserts

"Your very own Infernal Contract Lock" - item blocks a player from the card A devil's taken a shine to you

We would add "Category:Something" to the "Category:Something Unlock" and "Category:Something Lock" pages. Then when readers open the "Category:Something" page, they will see the Unlock and Lock as subcategories and can click on them if they purely wish to see those related pages. At a glance, readers will also see how frequently an item is used for actions.

As for qualities, they could split like this:

"The Hunt is On! is dropping..." and "'The Hunt is On!' has been reset: a conclusion or a new beginning?" gets "The Hunt is On!"

"The Hunt is On! is increasing..." gets "The Hunt is On! Sources"

"Unlocked with The Hunt is On! 10" gets "The Hunt is On! Unlock"

"Locked with The Hunt is On!" gets "The Hunt is On! Lock"

The Connected: Faction pages are a mess, too. FL has ramped up the benefits and restrictions of Connections considerably in recent months. At the least, readers will want to know which options raise and decrease them. There's no debate on whether Connections should be separated like Menaces; it's just a matter of deciding how to do it. At least indexing them the way we do for Menaces is easiest for consistency and veteran readers of this wiki will understand immediately.

"Connected: Bohemian is increasing..." gets "Bohemian Sources"

"Connected: Bohemian is dropping..." gets "Bohemian"

We should also start using Unlock and Lock categories.

I do NOT enjoy extra work, but we should prepare for new conditions: FL is certain to release many more story options which will be unlocked or blocked by certain factions. It's narratively sound and people, both players and developers, have been discussing the increased prominence of factions for ages on the Feedback forum. As an educated guess example for the future, Church-friendly characters will not be able to even see (forget playing) certain Hell-oriented storylines because they have at least 1 point in Connected: The Church. Such a case is when the Unlock and Lock category pages shall be necessary.

Dang, this got hella long. Originally, I had planned two or three paragraphs. I think I set a new record for wikia FL wall post length.
ZDee (talk) 07:21, April 3, 2013 (UTC)
Fair enough. The argument for tagging a page for later recategorisation is decent.

I had been thinking about the Connection categories - these could use refining more than the Item categories (which at least have Sources as distinct from Uses/Losses). I still think separate Unlock and Lock categories is overdoing it, but they could definitely use distinct Unlock, Gain and Loss categories. Quirks would pretty naturally follow the same pattern. If we standardise the language, it would be easy enough to modify the templates to point to the associated categories (as for Items and Menaces).

My vote for naming would be (for Bohemian example):

* Bohemian - storylet/action is unlocked or locked at certain levels of Bohemian
* Bohemian Gain - adds some amount to the quality
* Bohemian Loss - deducts (or resets) the quality

IMHO, Sources is a suffix that doesn't have a natural opposite; Drops could get confused with the opposite, MMO meaning.
Jemann (talk) 05:01, April 4, 2013 (UTC)
Truthfully, when I first started editing here, I noticed the seemingly excessive categories many pages had and thought, Sheesh, do I have to add all of them that way? ...BUT then I finally realized its true purpose: keeping sh1t from hitting the roof when you have to recatalog something. Remember when we had to update those ~1,000 Nightmares icons? I seriously could have saved myself hours of work if they had all been categorized properly with "Nightmares" or "Nightmares Cures". Additionally, some pages had no icons or links but they did have a Nightmares category, so that was a huge help! Casual contributors that don't know how to add icons or links sometimes add the related categories instead. :)

I don't like the notion of using Unlock and Lock categories on top of the existentent use and sources categories, though I think it'll be important later. Well, that might be for later. Let's go with your plan now! I like your naming suggestion for revising the Contacts/Connections and Quirks categories. "Gain" and "Loss" are quite intuitive! :D It's a lot of pages to update. D: It's good that we're starting now.

Does anyone else want to say something? Agreements? Disagreements? New ideas?

Jemann, I see you've moved blog posts to the front page's news feed! Great, you should write a notice in a blog post about the new categories.

Edit: "Added ZDee, Aximillio and me to front-page bloggers. What a responsibility!" Er, I didn't see this till now. My rant about Mr Wines' Revels is the first topic, ahahaha.
ZDee (talk) 11:20, April 4, 2013 (UTC)
Completely agree on connections/quirks sources/uses -it'll make it way easier to find what increases Connected:Criminals and what drops Connected:Hell. And what drops Heartless/Ruthless, for instance.

We might need locks/unlocks in the future, but not yet.

* Front page posters: That people are seeing there's activity here surely can't be a bad thing.
Aximillio (talk) 18:31, April 4, 2013 (UTC)
Shall we list Making Waves Gain/Loss/Use as well?
Aximillio (talk) 13:58, April 9, 2013 (UTC)
Sure, knock yourself out.

Using a similar category style to Connections and Quirks would be easier for readers to remember:

"Making Waves" for Unlock/Lock

"Making Waves Gain" for when it increases

"Making Waves Loss" for when it drops
ZDee (talk) 14:09, April 9, 2013 (UTC)

Updated challenge. Is this the right photo? I think it's different now.[edit]

That's the image on the card, unless I'm only viewing a cached image.
Aximillio (talk) 20:30, April 3, 2013 (UTC)

Okay, thanks for the confirmation. There are so many spider pictures I wasn't certain if it had changed.
ZDee (talk) 06:39, April 4, 2013 (UTC)

Does anyone wish to betray me?[edit]

EDIT2: Please stop sending me betrayal invitations for a certain candle. I'm no longer available for the task. I'm free for other polite social invitations, though.

Good luck to the other Seekers!

Yes, the illuminating sort of betrayal.

I plan to start a certain Seeking story by assisting someone with their acquirement of exotic waxes. I gave my promise to someone earlier, but he no longer requires my special assistance. Does anyone here need such special assistance?

EDIT: I've found a new raving lunatic to act as my patron. I'm not sure whether to use a smiley face or a frowny face in this instance...
ZDee (talk) 06:47, April 6, 2013 (UTC)

Seriously, folks, stop sending me monstrous invitations laced with betrayal and the Name. (I've already sacrified my alt to someone.) I only end up feeling sad when I don't help you.

I'm not going to click the "Accept" button in a drunken daze, either.

Again, I'm still available for other social interactions that don't require me to enter an agonized state of obsession for nomenclature. :)
ZDee (talk) 01:08, May 31, 2013 (UTC)

Rare Success[edit]

Hi! I don't know where to post this, so I decided to ask you:

Has anyone calculated the chances for "Rare Successes" for various actions? Is the chance the same for all actions with a "Rare Success", or does it change depending on the card/storylet?

The reason I'm asking is that I'm a complitionist and try to go for every possible outcome. Usually it takes about five-six tries to get a "Rare Success", but in Up the back stairs... I succeeded at least 15 times (with about ten failures) without getting the rare one. I'm wondering how can we know that a card/storylet still has two successes?

P.S. Since i'll be stuck with that storylet for some time I'll record my outcomes.
Vae Victis (talk) 15:58, May 1, 2013 (UTC)

Rare successes are different from each storylet to another.  Some actually *are* rare, such as some of the converting actions, where some appear 1/4th of the time or so.
Aximillio (talk) 16:16, May 1, 2013 (UTC)
Thanks, Aximillio

So if I get an approximate success rate should I put it into the article?
Vae Victis (talk) 18:12, May 1, 2013 (UTC)
I guess it can't hurt? If you're looking for sources to something I'd personally enjoy any percentages I could find. How accurate do you think you'll get them? Even an indication to whether it's 1/4, 1/10 or 1/100 would be nice.
Aximillio (talk) 19:03, May 1, 2013 (UTC)
Not very accurate because I'll lose (probably?) the storyley when my Investigating... will get too high. At the end it's all about statistics and enough repetitions. But for now it doesn't look like 1/4 at all.
Vae Victis (talk) 19:25, May 1, 2013 (UTC)
I'm among those interested in knowing the %'s of rare successes! :D

Optimally, we'd run at least 100,000 trials before declaring an estimated %. Realistically, though, we'd list a rough % after 300+ iterations. 300 tests is still logically a small sample size, but 100-200 are even less adequate. I'm suggesting 300 because many RS's weren't found till 220-280 tries (from reading through prior comments here and on FL forums). And when I say 300, I mean 300 successful attempts. Don't let the failures trip you up.

For instance, with "Up the back stairs"...I distinctly recall my frustration when I first encountered this storylet last year. Like you, I wanted to experience everything at least once. I tried 43 (maybe it was 46) times before stumbling upon the rare success. They were all successes, too! After that, I tried it 14 more times and 2 of them were RS's. 3RS out of ~60S. Several months later with my newest alt Harmony, he got the RS on his 2nd try. :P That means crap, of course. It's obviously not 50%.

We should list the RS% information down as the last line in Challenge Information for lack of a better area. It could read like this:

Challenge information

Broad, Shadowy 54

* 50 - chancy (60%)
* 59 - modest (70%)
* 67 - very modest (80%)
* 75 - low-risk (90%)
* 84 - straightforward (100%)

[Rare Success is approximately #%.]

For The fellow in the corner, I've hit that guy up for Third City Relics at least 1,500 times. (No joke; I'm grinding for a fancy lease.) Anyway, ~200RS out of ~1,300S (I might be off more or less by 10). Nice and high, right? I've even gotten a RS 3 times in a row ten times and 4 consecutive RS's twice. But if you're just bargaining with that fellow 10-100 times, it'll feel very different. Your results will probably vary anywhere from 9-33%. It'd be quite useful if you also wrote down how many successes (tests) you achieved to conclude the %.

I'm inclined to write this particular RS info like this:

[Rare Success is approximately 10-25%. (1,300 tests)]

From my own experience with groups of 20-action attempts, 10-30% is the RS range. I don't want to list 30%, though; it feels too misleading.

Before I edit The fellow in the corner to include my sketchy information, what are your thoughts? Is there a better way of doing this?

EDIT: We could also list tiny trial runs in the action pages' Comments (ex: "I tried this 32 times successfully. 2 were rare successes." or "54 successes; 6 were rare." whatever). Eventually, we'd have enough data to get a close approximation of the RS %.

EDIT2: It occurs to me that we should also do this for the luck challenges. "Pretty good odds" could be anywhere from ~60-80%. I'd like to know if an action challenge rests closer to 80 than 60 before going through with it. My idea of sticking trial data in the Comments stands here, as well.
ZDee (talk) 01:39, May 2, 2013 (UTC)
A better location for tallying outcomes might be google docs - so that multiple people could update counts on a shared document. The probabilities could then be included on the wiki once the # attempts get high enough. There could be problems with simultaneous edits, but it's more suited to the problem than a wiki.
Jemann (talk) 04:09, May 2, 2013 (UTC)
Sounds good! I don't want to clog the Comments sections, but I want people to see the data.

Why don't we link the google document on the front page with an explanation and a welcome for all to add their results? By "we", I mean you. ;D I have little experience with collaborative google document projects. I mean, I'll probably learn later what all the tools do by messing something up, but someone more experienced should organize it now.
ZDee (talk) 04:19, May 2, 2013 (UTC)
I'd also like to see google docs. Like ZDee wrote, there should be two sections - one for rare successes and one for luck encounters. BTW, does anyone here has a mathematical or statistician background?
Vae Victis (talk) 05:40, May 2, 2013 (UTC)

A google spreadsheet + input form might work well with soliciting results, yet making sure that errors in input don't entirely affect the entire collection of data. Only possible problem with going for card/storylet specific data is that we may end up with too much data across all the cards, but not enough for any one specific card. O_O

Perhaps someone might know any of the kind folks over at the game forums who may have the suitable background for this kind of data collection? :)
Neonix (talk) 08:41, May 2, 2013 (UTC)
Good point! We can make a form to automatically aggregate data into a spreadsheet. ...Right, is that how those google forms work?

I'm sure we'll be able to collect several hundred to thousands of test results for the more popular grinding options. People and their Overgoats, ya know.

I figure we could ask the nerds here:

Urthdigger and Corran are FL wikia editors. They probably wouldn't mind posting their statistics here.

After we get this data collector thingamabob off the ground, we should mention it in the forum as a little fan project. I'll also add it to my forum signature. People read that stuff, I swear.
ZDee (talk) 09:12, May 2, 2013 (UTC)
S/RS/F Notes:

For attribute-based (Watchful, Shadowy, Dangerous, Persuasive, Connections, Quirks, etc.) challenges, don't think of it as 3 options:

1) Success

2) Rare Success

3) Failure

View it as 2 options:

1) Success (with the inherent chance of being a Rare one)

2) Failure

Ever play a dice game like D&D or Monopoly? Imagine RS as a double roll of sorts. You roll first to see whether you've succeeded or failed. If you succeed, you roll again to see if you get a regular reward or a rare one. It's officially explained here:

I guess the RNG reward code is something like this:


0 could be S and 1 could be RS. You're more likely to land on 0 than 1. You won't even reach that string of reward code if you fail, though. The initial roll for success or failure is based on how high you've raised a certain attribute. It's quite possible to achieve 100% success with attribute-based challenges (e.g. taking Shadowy up to level 70 to attain straightforward 100% success chance at staying silent as you evade pursuers, or taking Austere up to level 9 for 100% S at resisting scrumptious chocolates). Only S and RS results are collected for such challenges.

It's very different with fully luck-based challenges ("a matter of luck"). There's no way to raise or lower your chances for success. It's been predetermined that you've got a 30%, 50% or whatever % the coder chose for that challenge. Your sole hint is the description that follows "a matter of luck": "it could go either way", "pretty good odds" and so forth. All S, RS and F results are recorded for such challenges. You can tell whether you've won or lost by the fortunate/unfortunate messages.
ZDee (talk) 09:01, May 5, 2013 (UTC)
OK, so I'll stop recording fails for regular challenges.

Fascinating read, that doc.

Edit: Bah. Now my Investigating is too high to keep going Up the back stairs...
Vae Victis (talk) 10:12, May 5, 2013 (UTC)
FL was moved to the StoryNexus platform a few months ago. It's not fully integrated; some subjects in the SN document aren't reflected as true for FL. FBG tried to keep the explanations of mechanics simple for anyone interested in using SN to develop their own games. SN is a platform crafted for writers rather than programmers.

Quit your obsession with creeping up the back stairs, ya stalker. :p You're really committed to playing through every story branch, aren't you? I grinded my way to the clerical threesome and called it a day. I didn't have enough mental stamina to start the snooping cycle for two more finales.
ZDee (talk) 11:33, May 5, 2013 (UTC)
I still haven't gotten to the threesome - I was just hoping I could as much data as possible before while I work the couple.

Anyway, I have enough to hint that the rare percentage is closer to 10% (11.6% at the moment). Was there any progress with recruiting the egg-heads?
Vae Victis (talk) 16:23, May 5, 2013 (UTC)
If we combine our results for sneaking up the stairs, it's 14 RS out of ~150 S. Hrm, it does seem to be ~10%. If you want to edit in these numbers on the action page, go ahead.

No recruitment was performed. I thought I'd ask people after we set up a method for collecting data. It's probably better to mention it now, though...gather ideas and such. But I won't do it now now. I'm going offline shortly. (Someone else could also ask; don't be shy. It's not as if I want to hog recruitment duty.)
ZDee (talk) 17:11, May 5, 2013 (UTC)
I've added the rare success, but made it a link to a non-existing article so that we'd know that content should be added with proper explanation and figures (like the Broad Difficulty page).

btw, i think the proper way to calculate rare success rate is #rare/(#rare+#success) (in case of the stairs its ~8.5%, but i put it as 10% for now) because both regular and rare are successes.
Vae Victis (talk) 20:45, May 5, 2013 (UTC)
For luck-based challenges with a rare success, I suppose we'll record the chances of all three outcomes? i.e.

* success % = #succ/(#succ+#rare+#fail)
* rare % = #rare/(#succ+#rare+#fail)
* failure % = #fail/(#succ+#rare+#fail)

The other alternative would be separating the chance of success vs. failure and rare success vs. regular success:

* success % = (#succ+#rare)/(#succ+#rare+#fail)
* rare % = #rare/(#succ+#rare)

which seems much less intuitive to me.
Jemann (talk) 00:39, May 6, 2013 (UTC)

Vae Victis wrote:
btw, i think the proper way to calculate rare success rate is #rare/(#rare+#success) (in case of the stairs its ~8.5%, but i put it as 10% for now) because both regular and rare are successes.

Erm, yes. XD I calculated it that way for my 3rd City Relic hunts, but I skipped a vital step for back stair creeping (as we've obviously seen). Anyway, I think it's better to add the # of tests. For all we know, it's supposed to be 7% RS for the back stairs; we're working with a tiny sample size and people should know.

I'm nearly done harvesting relics. I shall soon have that fancy room in the asylum!

For the luck challenges, we're mostly trying to pinpoint the Fortunate %. Fortunate results include both regular success and rare success. As a byproduct, we'll learn the Unfortunate % which is solely failure.

* Fortunate % = (#succ+#rare)/(#succ+#rare+#fail)
* Unfortunate % = #fail/(#succ+#rare+#fail)

We don't even need to use both formulas above to find out the F and U %'s for a particular challenge. Once we have enough information to properly calculate one, the other will be known. Ex: We discover the U% to be 30%. We subtract that from 100%, and we're left with a F% of 70%.

* Rare Success % = #rare/(#succ+#rare)

(After all, RS for luck challenges also follow the "double roll" code.)

Honestly, we shouldn't worry about the RS% for luck-based challenges. There seem to be few luck challenges with a RS. In the above three formulas, #rare will usually be filled with "0". :P Then again, maybe people fail so bad that they never see the RS...what with it being rare and impossible to get unless you first pass the F/U wall.

It's okay if the formulas aren't intuitive; they just have to be correct. Besides, the adding and dividing phases won't even begin till there's sufficient numbers for #succ, #rare and #fail. By "sufficient", I mean a total of at least 100 runs. It'd be a miniscule group of results but far more reliable than 10 or 50. Plus, a triple digit number looks sturdier than a double digit number!

Would it help if we gave people a visual analogy?

For luck-based challenges, you're in front of a door. It's either unlocked or locked. By the way, you are a robber trespassing on private property. I don't know what you're here to steal. Porcelain kittens, perhaps? So, back to the doors! You twist the knob. If the door doesn't open, no kittens for you (Unfortunate). If the door opens, you get kittens (Fortunate). But, wait, whoa, this time the door opens and you also discover a big bag of diamonds next to the kittens (Fortunate and rare). Now does everyone understand how these formulas work?!

Man, I kinda suck at analogies...
ZDee (talk) 05:47, May 6, 2013 (UTC)

ZDee wrote:

Honestly, we shouldn't worry about the RS% for luck-based challenges. There seem to be few luck challenges with a RS.

Well, except for all those extra-lucky item conversion actions...
Jemann (talk) 07:02, May 6, 2013 (UTC)
Yeah, those are only...what, two or three...dozen? x_x

My apologies! *sigh* My brain always turns to mush around pollen season. I'm going to down more meds. I'll be operating at half capacity till August rolls around. I need you guys to watch my back till then, thanks. You've all been warned.

I really want to collect the full results for the item conversions, lotsa intriguing lore there. I don't want to spare time/actions for it till I finish compiling PoSI items and exploring the Unterzee with my characters. By the time I complete my PoSI collection (working on leasing all 4-card lodgings), I bet the Carnelian Coast will open and stall my plans further.
ZDee (talk) 07:27, May 6, 2013 (UTC)

ZDee wrote:
We don't even need to use both formulas above to find out the F and U %'s for a particular challenge. Once we have enough information to properly calculate one, the other will be known. Ex: We discover the U% to be 30%. We subtract that from 100%, and we're left with a F% of 70%.

It's better to record all outcome for luck challenges because in statistics the more data the better. Failed luck results should help us determine the most accurate success rate precisely because of the (1-p) relationship between the two.

Also, I don't think articles should have the number of tries next to the rare success chance because when it comes to actual articles I believe that only the information useful to most users should be displayed. If someone wants to examine the underlining calculations they would enter the Rare Success article where, hopefully, such data would be stored (or it'll have a link to the google spreadsheet).
Vae Victis (talk) 14:38, May 6, 2013 (UTC)
"It's better to record all outcome for luck challenges because in statistics the more data the better."

I'm saying that using either one of the Fortunate % or Unfortunate % formulas will tell people the answers to both.

For instance, you're presented with a luck challenge which states "a long shot...but you might win". You spend 3,000 actions and record both F & U results. There are 150 F results and 2,850 U results.

If you use the Fortunate % formula, you find an answer of 5% F. You subtract it from 100% and realize the U % is 95.

If you use the Unfortunate % formula instead, you get an answer of 95% U. Subtract it from 100% and you now know the F % is 5.

That particular luck challenge's description of "a long shot...but you might win" probably means 5% good luck. It's just reverse methodology. You'll discover both F and U %'s from using one formula. There's no need to do both. That's all I meant!

"Also, I don't think articles should have the number of tries next to the rare success chance because when it comes to actual articles I believe that only the information useful to most users should be displayed. If someone wants to examine the underlining calculations they would enter the Rare Success article where, hopefully, such data would be stored (or it'll have a link to the google spreadsheet)."

Yeah, that's better. It'd reduce the likelihood of simultaneous edits here (it's a terrible nuisance to try to Publish a page if someone else edited it while you were working in the Edit screen). We also wouldn't have to bother with updating both the wikia action page and the google document every time we wanted to add test results.
ZDee (talk) 17:41, May 6, 2013 (UTC)

ZDee wrote:

I'm saying that using either one of the Fortunate % or Unfortunate % formulas will tell people the answers to both.

You're right, my brain isn't working today.

Regardless, I think we should still show on the article both chances so that people wouldn't need to subtract by themselves - just like the Broad Difficulty table gives the needed stats for several success levels (60% to 100%) instead of only telling the base difficulty. I know that subtraction is much easier than the Difficulty calculations, but some people do have math anxiety (I'm obviously bad at math) and we won't lose anything by showing both percentages.

Edit: typos.
Vae Victis (talk) 21:04, May 6, 2013 (UTC)
I forgive your insubordination. Next time, though, there shall be a prolonged dunking in the Stolen River. ;D

We all have inner mathematics demons. I bet even Archimedes had them. He's that dude, the one who shouted "Eureka!" while sloshing water out of a tub. Anyway, I don't mind including a row of numbers for Fortunate and Unfortunate %'s.

There are some notes about random probability, Random Number Generators, types of RNG's (particularly the ones used in games like FL) I want to type out here, but it'd be long and my head hurts. I just want to get it out there that FL doesn't allow for Gambler's Fallacy to occur.

Amendment: It doesn't occur for RS%. Everything else is technical fair game.
ZDee (talk) 06:35, May 7, 2013 (UTC)


I'll see what I can record, I'm at

having Recurring Dreams: Is Someone There? 16

having Recurring Dreams: Death by Water 15

having Recurring Dreams: What the Thunder Said 14

having Recurring Dreams: The Burial of the Dead 17

having Recurring Dreams: The Fire Sermon 11

Dreaming Strange Dreams: A Game of Chess 13
Aximillio (talk) 20:14, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

Thank you. I can always rely on you to suffer with me. :)

I weeded through every dream storyline to locate and mark article stubs. I double checked and occasionally triple checked to see if I missed anything, so I think I've got everything listed. Then again, I sped through those storylines quite quickly, so there's a small chance I missed something.

My alts' dream qualities are all over the place. I'll have to constantly check my list to make sure I don't skip anything while progressing. We don't know the actual Unlock ranges for the cards, so it's possible we'll unintentionally skip some cards.

I'm hesitant to recommend this, but if you think you've surpassed a card's Unlock range, you can drop a specific dream quality with the right visit to Dr Schlomo... Bloody charlatan charges 4 Echoes per visit, though -- and in Phosphorescent Scarabs! What the heck is he gonna do with all of them? Is he a dang Revolutionary? Anyway, yeah, he's the last resort. You can also lower Dreams by leaving a State of Some Confusion through the Hotel, but that sadly strikes all Dreams. And I know you know that "What the Thunder Said" can be recycled.
ZDee (talk) 20:32, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
Is someone there and Death by water are easy to raise with exotica once you're at 5, btw.
Aximillio (talk) 20:51, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
Unrelated, but...

Aximillio wrote:

"I thought I'd responded to this, but perhaps I didn't?"

...You did. I read your original post. If you didn't delete your post, then a moderator or an administrator probably did it. I suppose this means that whoever did it doesn't want the images folder directly linked at the forum.
ZDee (talk) 21:54, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
Aximillio (talk) 22:53, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
I guess they might have a point, though, since it's almost like a spoiler. I'll still keep recording images, obviously though.

I guess I might've been so sleepy I might have clicked delete as well?
Aximillio (talk) 22:56, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
...Unless you also used the 7-letter k-word in an obscene speech... We all know people despise that word. ;)
ZDee (talk) 22:57, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
I'm certain I didn't mention any *******s.
Aximillio (talk) 23:03, May 19, 2013 (UTC)
They seem to be fine with us linking to a specific image at the forum, though (like the way you and some other players have posted header banners and icons).

A hyperlink to the folder itself could be viewed as overkill, I guess. It is spoiler-ish if you know how to access the folder and you have the persistency to browse that incredibly long list. It's not what I'd call easy. I'll veer on the cautious side and avoid publically linking to the folder on the forum.

And, yes, maybe you did accidentally click the "Delete" button, haha! Well, we shouldn't worry about it too much. My forum profile avatar is an unreleased icon, and you used three different unreleased icons in your signature for a few months. The wrath of the admins hasn't descended on us for those acts, so it must be okay.
ZDee (talk) 23:15, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

Sign up for a few tutorials[edit]

Just checked it and the failure is completely accurate- no Nightmares for failure. 05:39, May 20, 2013 (UTC)

Great, thanks! :)
ZDee (talk) 05:40, May 20, 2013 (UTC)

Uploading images was a little harder than usual today[edit]

This was due to all icons being changed. I still managed to find a few, but I'm not certain I got all.  I'm not entirely sure whether this will continue...
Aximillio (talk) 16:50, May 20, 2013 (UTC)

To obsessively scour the folder or not...

Let me weigh the pros and cons...

Meh, who am I kidding? *rushes off to check the icons!*

What's with the mass update, though? Did the image sizes change? For example, are they smaller and fast to load now?
ZDee (talk) 18:38, May 20, 2013 (UTC)
Old-icans is the update, I think. Old images catalog?
Aximillio (talk) 19:45, May 20, 2013 (UTC)

There's a different way to check if things have been moved around. After a page has been fully loaded, we should see which icon's at the bottom. Currently, the original folder link stops at "eggplain.png"; if it changes, then we know something's been removed or added at the least. The second marker page currently ends with "sidebarsuspicion.png". Searching by date is still best, of course.
ZDee (talk) 20:00, May 20, 2013 (UTC)
I see now what you mean by "old-icans". :-/ I'm not going through that section. I'm done with the regular icons section.
ZDee (talk) 20:42, May 20, 2013 (UTC)
Same =P
Aximillio (talk) 20:43, May 20, 2013 (UTC)
Crap, there are a lot of images without Licensing tags. That's mostly my fault. Now I have to check the hundreds of images I've uploaded to place copyright warnings. T_T

I'm not checking anyone else's, though. I hope they were wiser than me.
ZDee (talk) 20:51, May 20, 2013 (UTC)
We'll probably overwrite a few eventually if you miss some.
Aximillio (talk) 20:54, May 20, 2013 (UTC)
Oh, it's easier than I expected. You can sort uploads by user if you use this link:

It's not fail-proof, though. The images I uploaded in the past few weeks don't show up, but I've already caught those.
ZDee (talk) 20:59, May 20, 2013 (UTC)
Is there an easier way to change licencing than uploading them again?
Aximillio (talk) 21:04, May 20, 2013 (UTC)
Yes. You can edit the media file's page to include the licensing information.

For instance, the first photo is Rookery2small. Click the yellow "Rookery2small.png" link on the left side and it'll take you to the individual file page. Then you edit like usual.

I go to Source and add this code:

== Licensing ==

ZDee (talk) 21:11, May 20, 2013 (UTC)
Seems like you need a certain IP or something to access the image database now. That's slightly inconvenient.
Aximillio (talk) 14:32, May 21, 2013 (UTC)
Oh well... Our days of easy previews are over. I sort of expected that to happen. They're releasing so much new content these days that I'm not surprised they'd put it all under heavier lock and key.

I added licensing information to 400+ images yesterday. I know people rarely look at the individual file page, but it had to be done! Once I have more free time, I'll go through the other images in our Photos album to see if they're missing the copyright info, but they're probably fine.
ZDee (talk) 20:36, May 21, 2013 (UTC)

Iron Republic Journal[edit]

Checked. Shall I edit in a notice for those that haven't been checked yet?
Aximillio (talk) 21:57, May 21, 2013 (UTC)

Nah, it's fine. I found everything else at the Bazaar or on player mantelpieces. The unconfirmed weapons are +1 Bizarre and Dreaded items. I doubt they'll receive a boost to 2, though we should keep an eye out.
ZDee (talk) 22:00, May 21, 2013 (UTC)
Son of a gun, our Bag a Legend! rosary wasn't updated!!

Even that obscure Forbidden Map-Fragment which hasn't been available for nigh 3 years was updated but not the Spiked Rosary?! D:
ZDee (talk) 22:08, May 21, 2013 (UTC)
I saw that too...
Aximillio (talk) 22:11, May 21, 2013 (UTC)
How's Sandalwood Club doing?
Aximillio (talk) 22:13, May 21, 2013 (UTC)
Its description and stats didn't change. So, for Bag a Legend!, only the Vake-Killing Club was touched.

It would be badass if our Spiked Rosary gave -2 Nightmares...
ZDee (talk) 22:15, May 21, 2013 (UTC)
Indeed! In unrelated news I'm going to Zee soon. I got my WtTS close to 15 so I want to up my Stormy-Eyed and fill some stubs there. I'll try to visit some isles to see if they've got their icons updated. Also, I want to see some storylets in the iron republic, I've been unable to access.
Aximillio (talk) 22:20, May 21, 2013 (UTC)
Good! We need to verify the big photos for the area options:

We need to check the small icons for the individual "You've moved to a new area: So-and-So Place" messages, too. in particular.

Speaking of such messages, have they all been changed from "You've moved to..." to "You have moved to..." (no written contraction)? I've noticed it here and there recently, but I'm not sure if it's a global change. If it's global, we'd have to update the Quicklist at the least.
ZDee (talk) 22:36, May 21, 2013 (UTC)
Is it me or is the Parabola Suit back to tones of white? I prefer the amberine version, though I do like the white.

Should we reupload the Parabola Suit images now or wait a day to see if it changes? I'll let you decide.
ZDee (talk) 22:44, May 21, 2013 (UTC)
Might be cache. Let's wait a few days.
Aximillio (talk) 22:45, May 21, 2013 (UTC)
"This one, Z"

One must also consider the nature of the speaker

You've dropped your Connected: Revolutionaries low enough?

I digress, but have you tried A spirifer? (2 FATE)? Zee Dee has a lot of Fate on his account, but I don't want to purchase that option if it only gives lore we already know.
ZDee (talk) 23:02, May 21, 2013 (UTC)
It doesn't show up w/o Connected:Hell =P

My revolutionaries are at 19 atm, but that's only because I've been grinding it for a few actions for that flit card...

On overall my contacts are pretty low, actually. I've destroyed constables and hell, and docks will go the same route once I max my dangerous again (It's not like it's hard to regain them, after all.) Orient as well, but I'll spend what I have to remove nightmares when I get them.

Society (respectable landau card), the great game (velocipede card) and bohemian (author) I get whether I want or not.
Aximillio (talk) 23:09, May 21, 2013 (UTC)
"It doesn't show up w/o Connected:Hell =P"

EDIT: Ah, that's right.

I want to spend my Revolutionaries points on the Flit favours card, but I've mostly been drawing cards in the Shuttered Palace for the past few weeks. I'm trying to record the rest of the results for A really nice haircut. No such luck...yet! Know what, I'm gonna link the Rare Opportunity Cards and Location Specific Cards categories to the navigation bar. They're somewhat easy to miss, especially the rare category.
ZDee (talk) 23:27, May 21, 2013 (UTC)
At Zee now. Let's hope I get some Seals for breeding as well =)
Aximillio (talk) 17:40, May 24, 2013 (UTC)
Is it very hard to collect one? I'm going to buy the Fate-locked Labyrinth-related content later. I hear you have to maneuver your zee cards and actions just right to stay in the Seal's Troubled Water bracket (9-11 or something?).
ZDee (talk) 22:52, May 24, 2013 (UTC)
The problem is I usually don't get more troubled waters than ~6-8.

Once you're in the bracket it's pretty easy.
Aximillio (talk) 22:56, May 24, 2013 (UTC)
Thanks. I'll take note of this for future sea voyages.
ZDee (talk) 23:00, May 24, 2013 (UTC)
Getting a Plated Seal is easy. Increase your Approaching Journey's End up to 9, then play cards until you get your Troubled Waters up to 11. Then you can just grab the Seal and go (assuming you're lucky with your cards). No need for clever action use.
Delmar Tramontane (talk) 12:01, May 25, 2013 (UTC)
It takes longer getting troubled waters up to 11 than approaching to 9 for me. The problem isn't getting the seal, but to do so without spending more than necessary actions.
Aximillio (talk) 12:04, May 25, 2013 (UTC)
Yeah, I always hit Approaching 9 before Troubled 11, but at least it's still possible to play cards after you get your Approaching up to 9. Getting the Seal would be quite a hassle if you couldn't.
Delmar Tramontane (talk) 12:18, May 25, 2013 (UTC)

There's no subtle loss from a failure?[edit]

Nope, just like there's no hedonist drop w/HD mirror failure.
Aximillio (talk) 22:48, May 24, 2013 (UTC)

Ahhh, so you only lose Quirk points with success. Thanks for clarifying.

We're missing the Nemesis and Bag a Legend mirror failures. I'll probably be able to record the Nemesis failure soon, but my Melancholy's too high for the Bag a Legend challenge.

I really don't want to sacrifice my Melancholy points now that it's so much harder to raise that Quirk to 9 and beyond. What ever happened to that opportunity card which would raise your Quirks to 9, Melancholy included? Your character's at a bar and the card asks you what you're doing. I raised most of my Melancholy with that card!
ZDee (talk) 22:59, May 24, 2013 (UTC)
I'll see if I can do Bag a legend.
Aximillio (talk) 23:03, May 24, 2013 (UTC)
Ooh, you added it! Great. Both results sound suitably epic for our action-packed thriller comedy thing of an ambition. The first seems likely to happen while traversing the Vake's dreams, and the second seems like it'll happen in reality...but FL likes to twist stuff, so it'll probably be the reverse. :p
ZDee (talk) 01:45, May 25, 2013 (UTC)


So I did some experimenting with the item template and wondered whether it's better or worse than before? Take Abominable Salts as an example. Is it better to keep the


* ---

* ---

* ---

* ---

or simply removing them like it's now? (I've made sure they appear on items *with* effects, so there's no worry there)

Edit: the spacing seems to be off, so I'll need to do some more experimenting in either case.

Actually, nevermind, I'll revert it.
Aximillio (talk) 16:17, May 28, 2013 (UTC)

LOL, I enjoy walking into conversations that began without me, went on without me, and then ended without me...while all still being addressed towards me!

Since we're on the issue of items, I think we should have their inventory storylets redirect to their individual item pages. For Abominable Salts, its inventory storylet is entitled "Use your Poison for something other than Murder", so we'd create a separate page named "Use your Poison for something other than Murder" which redirects to Abominable Salts.

The rest of the game's storylets have their own pages, so it's odd and counter-intuitive not to have them for important things like items.

*looks around* I just want to remind people that even though I may be addressing a specific person, it's all right to jump into the conversation. It doesn't matter whether you're an editor or a reader. Otherwise, Aximillio and I will forge ahead while taking your silence as tacit approval. :P
ZDee (talk) 02:09, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
Eh, nah, it was a monologue...
Aximillio (talk) 09:24, May 29, 2013 (UTC)


Am considering making a Nemesis alt. Do you know which low-level cards/storylets/etc. that are needed to update?
Aximillio (talk) 13:47, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

I'm going cross-eyed thinking about it. I know we're missing challenge information and results (probably failures) here and there in the early segments. I got sidetracked by PoSI matters, so my alt's still stuck in the middle of the story.

When you're in the Chambers of the Heart, hang around a while longer to check for additional opportunity cards. My alt has yet to visit Venderbight, so I'm not sure if that area even has cards.
ZDee (talk) 13:55, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
Yep, I expect to be slow about levelling it. No living stories there...
Aximillio (talk) 13:58, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
Soon enough, the game will ask you who died. I chose "Death of a Brother" and the Quality description is archived here:

The description of "Lover" is here in the substories list, but it doesn't seem to have its own page:

Vae is working on "Spouse". No page? He should put the Quality description somewhere. Maybe put all four onto the same page.

Guess you're stuck with "Daughter"? :P
ZDee (talk) 14:02, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
Found the Spouse page, but it still needs the description:

"Lover" seems lacking. "And now you'll never know." Know what?! If they loved you back? If you would have married and stayed together for life? Their last meal? Their favorite author? The name of their first pet? That description's a tad too vague for my tastes.
ZDee (talk) 14:07, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
How did you escape from prison? You didn't have to navigate the Preparing for a Daring Escape storyline? Like me, you had no access to a deck of cards in New Newgate, right?

Did you find yourself in An Abandoned Family Crypt once you were free? It bugged on me when I did it two months ago. My Lodgings was still the prison cell despite my having escaped.
ZDee (talk) 15:04, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
I forgot to watch for the abandoned family crypt =/ Otherwise, same experience.
Aximillio (talk) 15:07, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
My ambition is the death of the spouse. I've added the text for the spouse.
Vae Victis (talk) 15:58, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
Now that you've kicked the Ragged Mendicant out of your home -- thanks for adding the result -- how will you proceed with the Mysterious Benefactor storyline?

Can you restart this story with a special opportunity card or storylet found on subsequent trips to prison? That's how it worked months ago, but I'm not sure about now.
ZDee (talk) 13:03, May 30, 2013 (UTC)
We'll see, there's no storylet at lodgings
Aximillio (talk) 13:05, May 30, 2013 (UTC)
You'll get the chance to start over with a different Mysterious Benefactor sooner or later. I don't think a prison visit is required; from memory, it's a message that kicks things off again.
Jemann (talk) 14:18, May 30, 2013 (UTC)
Nice! personally, I was suprised to discover various Rare Success from low-level card . Shame that some of new options like Box or Writer lack such events. Maybe I'm just unlucky with new contents, though.
Nedemmons (talk) 14:55, June 22, 2013 (UTC)

A, it took me several minutes to realize you weren't using sexual innuendo. Just copy & paste it yourself next time. :P[edit]

Didn't even notice it could be mis-interpret...
Aximillio (talk) 15:09, May 30, 2013 (UTC)

I like you, so I'll allow you to use that excuse, ha.

I updated the early challenges in the storylines of the four friends you find in the starter areas (Loquacious Vicar, Bohemian Sculptress, Rooftop Urchin and Clayman Coalman) two months ago. They usually share the same Broad challenges.

I recorded FL's %'s for Broad 5 and 10, but 15 eluded me. I didn't have enough patience. 15 also seemed large enough that Jemann's calculator wouldn't trip over it.

The Unlock storylet for the four NPC friends I mentioned uses Broad 5. Their Level 1 storylet uses Broad 10. Earlier, I noticed you needed the challenge info for Broad 10, so I dug it up from the Rooftop Urchin's progress page at Befriending a Rooftop Urchin.
ZDee (talk) 15:24, May 30, 2013 (UTC)


I added |Buy Message and |Sell Message, but |Sell Message made the items get a contents box., so I put it into <noinclude></noinclude> boxes. Could you take a look at it?
Aximillio (talk) 20:30, May 31, 2013 (UTC)

Sure, hold on. :)
ZDee (talk) 20:31, May 31, 2013 (UTC)
I don't know what happened, but you fixed it!

Hrm, I think the Buy Message should be a line space further down from the Description to distinguish them more. Maybe a horizontal line? *goes back to tinker with template*
ZDee (talk) 20:46, May 31, 2013 (UTC)
Found it on the admin wikia. Four headlines make a contents box appear. Regardless of the size of the headlines.
Aximillio (talk) 20:49, May 31, 2013 (UTC)
Btw, I added |Shop as well. We still need to make the shop pages themselves, though.
Aximillio (talk) 20:50, May 31, 2013 (UTC)
I noticed. Good work. We'll make the Shop pages soon. that horizontal line crazy ugly?
ZDee (talk) 20:51, May 31, 2013 (UTC)
I wish it wasn't so...fat... I mean, look at the horizontal lines between our messages on this thread. They're skinnier and more subtle.
ZDee (talk) 20:53, May 31, 2013 (UTC)
It looks a little... out-of-place on pages that don't have buy messages... See Bazaar Permit, for instance. If you make it more subtle it should work, though.
Aximillio (talk) 20:53, May 31, 2013 (UTC)
Argh, I see what you mean. That doesn't look right!

How do I put the bar on a diet? :(
ZDee (talk) 20:55, May 31, 2013 (UTC)
You moved up the horizontal line so it now rests directly beneath the Description. It looks tolerable that way on the Bazaar Permit page.

I haven't found anything helpful from searching Wikia on its use of headers and horizontal lines. I have to head out. I'll be back later to check the Wikia Help index for more thorough answers.

If we can't make the line thinner, I suppose we could simply move the Buy Message lower to give it more space from the Description. Any other ideas? GODS, does anyone know how to make that shiz more attractive?
ZDee (talk) 21:21, May 31, 2013 (UTC)
Knew I'd find it eventually =)
Aximillio (talk) 21:31, May 31, 2013 (UTC)
Bah, now it's contents again...
Aximillio (talk) 21:34, May 31, 2013 (UTC)
removes Contents - sweet =)
Aximillio (talk) 21:42, May 31, 2013 (UTC)
Phew, it looks much less eye-searing now! Thank you. :D

*peers at Item's source code* So the thin horizontal line code is <h2> </h2>? Good to know.
ZDee (talk) 01:04, June 1, 2013 (UTC)
Honestly, I don't know how half of our templates function, but you do (thankfully), so please update this list when necessary:

I know you made the Shop template so that has to be added. I can't think of any others right now. Maybe the template descriptions need to be updated, too? Well, up to you!
ZDee (talk) 08:32, June 1, 2013 (UTC)
<h2></h2> stands for header 2. I just didn't give it a title.
Aximillio (talk) 10:21, June 1, 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for explaining.


No, that dang drum hates us and the band we like.

I fiddled around with the shop icon earlier, and it seems to look best on the left side in front of the shop description. Adding the "|thumb" code gives it an unattractive frame (clashes with the table frame) and it's out-of-place in the far right corner; it looks as if it snuck itself onto the page instead of blending in naturally. Generally, I prefer to use the "|thumb" code, but it doesn't look appropriate here.
ZDee (talk) 10:51, June 1, 2013 (UTC)
Aximillio (talk) 10:53, June 1, 2013 (UTC)
Seriously, though, does anyone know how to fix that blasted drum? No, no, it's not very important... The table already looks fantastic... *twitch* I'll simply compromise by never looking at that page again.

Bloody drum ate away half an hour of my life! :-[

This will end up as one of those things we'll Never Speak Of Again.
ZDee (talk) 11:04, June 1, 2013 (UTC)
What drum? What does it need?
Aximillio (talk) 11:06, June 1, 2013 (UTC)
Also, does right work?
Aximillio (talk) 11:13, June 1, 2013 (UTC)
Delmar and I have been trying to divide the Stats this way (for items with 3 or more Effects):

1st line has positive stats

2nd line has negative stats

The Voracious and Insatiable Gloves are what I mean.

Ratwork Watch is another example.

But now look at the Irresistible Drum in the same table! I wanted to have it display like this:

Persuasive +6

Shadowy -1 Watchful -1

It won't budge, though. It defeated me.

I know it's minor, but this is just one of those little things that flare up my OCD...
ZDee (talk) 11:13, June 1, 2013 (UTC)
Did that work?
Aximillio (talk) 11:19, June 1, 2013 (UTC)
Yeah, I did that earlier, but it causes the gap between stats on the same line to widen too much... The distance was just right before. At this point, you are ready to scream obscenities at me? :-/

I'm sorry; I have to step away for the next hour or thereabouts.

Don't let my minor grievances torment you!
ZDee (talk) 11:30, June 1, 2013 (UTC)
It's your turn to update the News Feed! :)

Topics to cover:

* Bazaar fashion makeover! ...The Echo Bazaar! page (I placed a table link in "Items")
* We're collecting Buy/Sell messages for items. All contributions welcome.
* "(no message)" indicates that there is currently no Buy and/or Sell message from the Bazaar
* Jack Vance tribute card "A disgraceful spectacle"
* has a Potential table in case people haven't noticed. (It's missing the Honey! and Laudanum! info. Hrm, Jemann made it for sacrifical items, but maybe we should also add A Cautious Edit, A Daring Edit, and later Seek Assistance from another writer once it reopens.)

Is that it? Well, blog to your heart's desire.


If your alt is low-leveled enough, please fill in the failure stub at (By the time I remembered it, Harmony was already in the 60's...)
ZDee (talk) 15:07, June 1, 2013 (UTC)
I just noticed the uniform width of gaps between columns and stats in the new shop tables. I'm happy you templated them all that way. Thanks. My OCD has calmed down. XD

Just noticed this, as well:

"Also, does right work?"

Yes. |left and |right don't frame the image. |thumb frames the image and provides a link to its individual file page through the small paper-and-magnifying-lens icon. It has also the effect of telling you who uploaded the image.

I like to credit people properly, but I also think the uploader's name and miniature avatar in a |thumb frame are distracting. The reading experience here would be more immersive if we could remove the editor avatars; leaving their names should be enough. It's kinda odd that a thumbed image has that sort of credit system but nothing else does...? I mean, you don't see the names of people who contributed to a page unless you read its History.

If there's a way to display a page's latest revision info (editor name and date) between the Categories and Comments, it'd be great to use. It's not simply a matter of acknowledging others' contributions; at a glance, we'd be able to tell how long it's been since a page was touched. If 2-3 years have passed, the page would be worth a followup check in the game.

I'm going to copy and paste the second portion of this post to Jemann's wall.
ZDee (talk) 03:03, June 2, 2013 (UTC)
Updated last you mean? I can see... Also, I meant |right in relation to the shop icons.
Aximillio (talk) 11:26, June 2, 2013 (UTC)
@Shop templates, that's just copy-paste =)
Aximillio (talk) 11:32, June 2, 2013 (UTC)

A conversation[edit]

Got the lucky result on new alt =)
Aximillio (talk) 17:52, June 1, 2013 (UTC)

Ooh, goodie! Let me see if accepting raises the Extraordinary Implication count. Be back with you in a moment...
ZDee (talk) 17:56, June 1, 2013 (UTC)
You now have 1 x Extraordinary Implication was the message I got: having none from before.
Aximillio (talk) 18:01, June 1, 2013 (UTC)
Hooray, another little booklet of intrigue! Same as last time: no Effects/Rewards messages accompanies the narrative text, but at least it works.
ZDee (talk) 18:02, June 1, 2013 (UTC)
It saddens me I can't reduce my alt's A Turncoat 4 quality =P
Aximillio (talk) 18:18, June 1, 2013 (UTC)
Haha, yeah... I guess the FBG team really wasn't expecting someone to repeatedly raise the quality till it hit 4 so early in the game. After the first or second time, you'd think a person would normally have learned the lesson by then. XD

At least you filled out the wiki! And who knows, maybe your Turncoat quality will unlock a hidden option that's ordinarily missed. FL can be sneaky like that.
ZDee (talk) 18:34, June 1, 2013 (UTC)
"I wonder how FBG expects people to get these failures w/o ridiculous hats and the like..."

Alexis' ulterior motive in releasing the Broad difficulty system is to spike the readership with failure text. He could go on and on about flawed legends and character growth for weeks, but in truth, he is just bitter that the early Failures have single digit totals for the Number of Times Read statistics chart.
ZDee (talk) 18:49, June 1, 2013 (UTC)

Seeking Mr Eaten's Name[edit]

Thanks for the edit, much appreiated. 00:52, June 22, 2013 (UTC)

No problem! You're quite welcome. :)

To Everyone:

Some storylet options are not simply locked; they won't display at all unless you possess the right unlock requirements. If you learn the specific numbered Forgotten Quarter Airs range needed to access certain options, please share it here.

Ways to uncover Airs #'s:

1) Go to "Myself" tab and scroll down to the "Scrapbook and Mantelpiece" section.

2) Click the picture to the left of "Scrapbook Status". A window should pop up with multiple options, both items and story qualities. Change your Scrapbook piece to "The Airs of the Forgotten Quarter" by clicking its icon, the blue horse statue.

3) Scroll back up the "Myself" page to the "Profile" button in the upper right corner. Click that button to visit your FL profile page. Your Airs score should be displayed as your Scrapbook item.

You can use this profile trick to learn the #'s of other Story Qualities like Adrift on a Sea of Misery, The Airs of London, and other miscellaneous numbers which usually don't show.
ZDee (talk) 01:10, June 22, 2013 (UTC)

Wow, how did you got CP value out of vauge data?[edit]

I just saw your edit on and that was really impressive. Is there some kind of CP calculator? Can you tell me how you did it?
Nedemmons (talk) 00:15, June 30, 2013 (UTC)

I would fricking love a CP calculator... *drools*

*drools some more at the thought*

Strange fantasies aside, I just added the math in my head. (Well, no, the counting of my fingers was also involved.) You climb the levels of Contacts/Connections and major attributes (Persuasive, Dangerous, Watchful, Shadowy & menaces) in a pyramid fashion:

In order to reach the next level, you must gain that level in CP.

If you start at level 4, you need 5 CP to reach level 5. If you're at level 10, you need 11 CP to get to level 11. Level 20 requires 21 CP to reach level 21, and on it goes...till you reach level 50.

After level 50, you only need 50 CP to reach any higher levels. I say "only" but you'll welcome this mechanic when you're at level 200 and you require 50 CP to reach level 201 instead of 201 CP. :P
ZDee (talk) 01:10, June 30, 2013 (UTC)


psst do you know which of the "tell dr schlomo about your dreams" articles are stubs because i'm not sure how to find all of them
Flapdragon (talk) 05:26, July 2, 2013 (UTC)

i hesitate to say this, but i suspect half or even all of the dr schlomo scarabicious visits offer rare successes. fricking expensive to test, though! i'm settling for recording the regular successes and failures.

Ask the Interpreter of Dreams about a game of chess

Ask the Interpreter of Dreams about death by water

Ask the Interpreter of Dreams about mirrors

Ask the Interpreter of Dreams about the burial of the dead

Ask the Interpreter of Dreams about the fire sermon

Ask the Interpreter of Dreams about what the thunder said

Talk to the Interpreter of Dreams

i think that's all the "patient session" cards. (i would normally compose a complete list of options for you like the dreams list in my wikia profile, but my keyboard broke; i'm using the onscreen one, bummer.)
ZDee (talk) 05:59, July 2, 2013 (UTC)

Investigate Doctor Schlomo has an option where you visit him as a patient, and we've already found the rare success for it. so yeah that should be all the relevant cards.


i wish i could sit schlomo down and analyze his beetle fetish for him.
ZDee (talk) 06:13, July 2, 2013 (UTC)
okay thank you! i just need to sort out the text now :vv some of these should be easy to guess but hmm
Flapdragon (talk) 08:11, July 2, 2013 (UTC)
Have fun?
Aximillio (talk) 21:28, July 16, 2013 (UTC)

Which Tragedy was I supposed to test again?[edit]

Aximillio (talk) 21:27, July 16, 2013 (UTC)

We know each tagline for Brother, Daughter, Love and Spouse how about filling in this storylet option (if possible)?

Listen 1

I chose Brother. Vae chose Spouse. Delmar has Brother. Jemann has...I can't remember... Up to you, dude. It is a major narrative decision in a roleplaying sense, so go with whichever choice makes the story most enjoyable for you. :)
ZDee (talk) 22:33, July 16, 2013 (UTC)
Daughter here then =)
Aximillio (talk) 22:35, July 16, 2013 (UTC)


Just wondering: is the social action the best to reduce Suspicion once you're a posi?
Aximillio (talk) 12:42, July 17, 2013 (UTC)

I'm really not sure... We don't have much CP information with the Suspicion reduction options. Of the options which do have CP's, I'm not sure if they're still accurate. I've never sent any Suspicion social actions; I've only responded to others' requests. Whenever I was forced to visit prison, I bribed my way out quickly enough.

When my characters attained PoSI status, I unintentionally raised their Shadowy quite high (130's to 150's) through Casing and Heists (it's ~40-60 CP per heist reward) because I promptly gathered supplies for all 4-card lodgings; coupled with a Shadowy outfit, I rarely take Suspicion to the point where I have to worry about it. In the past 10 weeks, I've only taken one or two trips to New Newgate (and I think both of them were with my non-PoSI alt HL).

I always use the "Counting the Days" options of The Law's Long Arm when it appears. For my morally-challenged characters, they always pick the ruthless option from The vigilant gentlemen in blue. This routine has worked well for me to quell the occasional Suspicion from Shadowy failures.

If you're part of The Parthenaeum, Have a little word with the Chief Constable? I've never used it, but I suppose it's a good deal.
ZDee (talk) 16:57, July 17, 2013 (UTC)
I don't have a problem with failing challenges, I have a problem with A public lecture
Aximillio (talk) 20:18, July 17, 2013 (UTC)
Still grinding away for those banned Revolutionary books in the Flit?

When I lectured, I let my Suspicion rise to 6 or 7 before I stopped. After I lowered Suspicion back down to safer levels through use of the cards I mentioned, I restarted the lectures. There was an instance when I shot Suspicion to 9 before going to jail to clear it. Personally, Suspicion's penalty area is the easiest area to leave, so I don't mind a stay there. (It used to be the Boat, but now that the challenge bracket is 60%, I lose much more often at chess.)

You should Ask a friend to cover for you. Let's note the CP's! Invite Zeedee several times; he currently has no Suspicion. He's a Shepherd of Souls, and I've been meaning to use that special menace card.
ZDee (talk) 20:39, July 17, 2013 (UTC)
I suspect it clears 5 and gives 1, but tests are always nice =) 3 invites should do it =)
Aximillio (talk) 21:56, July 17, 2013 (UTC)
This conversation was quite the roundabout way to ask me to be your alibi. ;)
ZDee (talk) 22:03, July 17, 2013 (UTC)
Well, it also shows that I'm not the only one to not usually have a problem with suspicion =P
Aximillio (talk) 22:10, July 17, 2013 (UTC)

Advance your friendship to a condition of intimacy[edit]

Have you gotten the normal success a lot? Cause I haven't. Out of 4 attempts or so, since the 'a visit' update, all were rare.
Aximillio (talk) 17:26, July 18, 2013 (UTC)

Looking at our spreadsheet, it's currently even with 8 regular and 8 rare successes.

I've only done that action 6-8 times, but my results were 50/50. The Romantic Notions result doesn't seem to be very "rare"... It's probably better off being classified as an "alternate" success.

It's quite a drop in CP when you merely get the regular success (something like 15-20, probably 15). I think the rare success only increases CP by 5 or so. Someone's gotta verify that.
ZDee (talk) 18:10, July 18, 2013 (UTC)

I think it's that time again...[edit]

There's been quite a lot of activity since the last blog post, don't you think? Just wondered whether I'm supposed to write anything, since I'm at a scout camp next week, and will probably not have much time for the wiki at all.

Things to cover whenever we decide:

The Nadir

Bundles of Oddities

Polls (also, I think 1 poll/week or so works? Moving results to a poll home once they're finished?)

(Coffee Event)

Possibly mention we've fully released Fallen London Calculations?

Anything you feel like.
Aximillio (talk) 21:19, July 25, 2013 (UTC)

Link to the FL comic and hint to people they can learn about the next Kickstarter project after reading it.

Explain how 'Opening a Bundle of Oddities' has replaced the Random game mechanic. Talk about the new pet Blemmigan Secretary here? That we're on the hunt for its value and an option which offers it? That it's tied to the March Coffee event?

Introduce the spreadsheet. Help wanted for the Fidgeting Writer page. Briefly explain how to input numbers and revert history.

Ask people to cast their votes in the poll. I'd like it to stay on the front page till we get at least 50 votes. (Originally, I would have said 100 but it's not gathering much speed.) I wonder how many people even visit the front page. If you use search engines to locate what you want, you can easily miss the front page... Anyway, copying poll results to a Polls page sounds good.

Since the Nadir is advanced content, I'll give it a short and vague introduction near the bottom of the post. Just mention that it's a new area tied to the Forgotten Quarter and link to its poster. Also gonna mention the 'buttskull' fracas and no one can stop me! ;)

Is that all the notable and interesting stuff? Thought of listing the Bazaar's "rainbow", but we've only got 5 colors so far: irrigo, cosmogone, violant, peligin, apocyanic.

? - red

cosmogone - orange

? - yellow

peligin - green

apocyanic - cyan (blue)

irrigo - indigo

violant - violet

Looks like we're short 2 puns because 7 is the number yada yada.

Do you want to split the topics or shall I write them all in one big post? Like giving the comic its own post?

Have fun at camp! :D

I'll probably start classes mid-August and that's when my time here will be cut.
ZDee (talk) 23:12, July 25, 2013 (UTC)
The style of the icon table in "A little omen" looks good. :) The cards icons (30px) were different from the reward icons (regular pixel size), so I upgraded the card icons to the regular size to match them. Or did you want them all to be 30px? I couldn't tell so I just went with the plain size!

While I'm glad that I now know how to make footnotes because of you -- hooray! -- the current ones in "Unpredictable Treasures" seem to overcrowd the page. The footnote code would work much better in a long Guide or a big table. For our small Treasures table, the footnotes seem to be warring against the Values for attention rather than complementing them. Would you be okay with Undoing the page and instead adding a concise wiki note under the table to explain the expedition rewards?
ZDee (talk) 19:12, July 26, 2013 (UTC)
I used 30px, because a different table used 30px. If full size looks better I won't mind.

Fixed parts of Unpredictable Treasure. Not sure where to actually put the note...
Aximillio (talk) 19:40, July 26, 2013 (UTC)
Not sure...because 30px would be better for users who are browsing with small screens, but full size is typically better for viewing, right? Hmm, I'll change it to 30px and if we get people saying "Arrrrgh, the icons are too small!" we'll switch it back... ;P

Your notes are great, short and explanatory. I think they're better situated beneath the table and the 2 footnotes under them. From a layout standpoint, the options are top priority so they should be higher up and secondary things (like notes and such) should be under them. The notes are important, but after they've been read (and consequently memorized) a few times by the readers, their eyes will seek the options first on subsequent visits.

...Rereading our technical conversations, I can really see how they're only of interest to us, LOL.

Since you didn't respond to my question about whether we should split the news feed post, I guess that means I'll do it all myself, haha. I'll get that done later today.
ZDee (talk) 21:18, July 26, 2013 (UTC)
Oh, sorry, missed that one =/

30px are definitely too small though.
Aximillio (talk) 21:46, July 26, 2013 (UTC)
Yeah, they are too small with so many icons side-by-side. I'm changing both tables to the regular "small" size.
ZDee (talk) 21:47, July 26, 2013 (UTC)

[...]listing the Bazaar's "rainbow", but we've only got 5 colors so far: irrigo, cosmogone, violant, peligin, apocyanic.[...]

I wrote some minor note about them - if you want to see, here's it. It's not that useful, but still.
Nedemmons (talk) 13:25, November 25, 2013 (UTC)

Rare cards[edit]

For what it's worth I only got one A dusty bookshop and one The Departed since I started playing FL. To me they're pretty rare, but I could be just unlucky with those cards.

I've never seen A little omen at all. Rare or simply retired?
Vae Victis (talk) 08:13, July 28, 2013 (UTC)'s tricky. I'd like to reserve the category for cards that people will likely never see even if they play for years. That's honestly the case for the ones FL marks as "Rare". They're accompanied by warning messages:

"This is a Rare Opportunity - you lucky thing! Allowing your Menaces to get too high, or leaving Fallen London, may mean losing this card. Use it wisely!"

"A dusty bookshop" and "The Departed" are sorta uncommon but not rare. In a simpler way, I'm treating it as the difference between the odds of 100:1 (uncommon) and 1,000:1 (rare).

At a low estimate, the total of all my characters' card draws is 2,800 per month. (I'm excluding outer city draws like menace and ambition areas.) That's been the rate for the past 4 months.

A player with 1 character might merely have time twice or thrice a day to draw 16-26 times. If they log in thrice and fully draw their deck every day for a 30-day month, that would be 780 draws. My month is akin to this player flipping for 3 1/2 months.

There are surely other 1-character players who log in and flip far less, perhaps once a day. Upon login, they'll only be able to draw the 6 cards saved in their deck. After a month, that's 180 draws. My month is similar to this player drawing cards for 15 1/2 months. That's over a year! (Once my classes begin in August, I'll probably join this 6-card-daily-draw player's ranks.)

Each of my 5 characters has a Rare pet. I can tell you the approximate amount of draws they went through (using their initials):

Z - Haunted-Looking Dog 1,800

K - Salt Weasel 30

A - Haunted-Looking Dog 30

D - Rubbery Euphonium 1,875

H - Salt Weasel 336

Z, D and H were instances of camping at certain areas to draw the related pets. Z flipped diligently in Veilgarden for 6 weeks. D went half mad as he flipped in Spite for 10 weeks (the # of draws to Z is very close, but D had a slower draw rate). H vacationed in Ladybones Road and lucked out at 2 weeks. K and A weren't even trying! They just happened to draw the pet cards as they were passing through (at the time, my routine was to draw cards in different areas every login); they were extremely fortunate and that's all there is to it.

Other times I've intentionally sought out a rare card:

4,266 Lodgings draws produced 2 A commotion above!

2,700 Wolfstack Docks draws produced 3 The battle hymn of the Drownies and no The Bonfire of the Decencies

6,600 Shuttered Palace draws did not produce A really nice haircut and I'm beginning to think it may not be there at all...

I've never seen the The Velocipede Squad races by but we don't know where it's located.

A little omen is a citywide card. It used to be a very common card. Earlier this year, there was a short period when it was temporarily retired as Mood hats were developed for the card, and its frequency also dropped for the sake of Knife & Candle. Solely counting the past 4 months, that's at least 10,000 city cards flipped and I've only seen it once or twice (but the second time could have been imagined; I was drowsy). :P I've also seriously questioned if it had been retired. No... It's just rare to the point of people not knowing whether it exists anymore!

A dusty bookshop is the citywide counterpart to A little omen, but its frequency in the past month has risen a lot. After I made my comment about having spotted it 5 times in the past 3 weeks, I drew it again for the 6th time last night!

I've been staying at Watchmaker's Hill for The Departed and it comes up every few hundred draws (I'm also averaging past experiences when it popped up as I was searching for the Regretful Soldier). I know many players haven't seen it. But many of them haven't been looking in the right place! (This can also be said for other location-specific cards which are common but "nonexistent" if they're never drawn in their designated area.)

In closing my "Rare Opportunity Card" thesis, I'd like to say that people's draw rates can vary drastically month by month, so they should take theirs into account when they want to draw a rare card or listen to others advice saying "Oh, it'll only take you a few weeks at most." Regardless, the personal experience of trying will still leave people feeling butthurt because FL is serious when they say "Rare".
ZDee (talk) 22:02, July 28, 2013 (UTC)
Thank you for the detailed answer.

In regards to The Bonfire of the Decencies and The battle hymn of the Drownies cards my experience is very different from yours: I got 3-4 of the first and 1-2 of the second in no more than 300 draws. To you they appear to be rare but to me they're as uncommon as The Ragman's barge, The mummers’ dance and From the gutter (I think I only got two of each of those).

We may be looking at a Z vs A scenario: Some cards are extremely rare for you but only uncommon for me, and some are the other way around. The two of us may not be statistically significant enough to determine if those cards are rare or not.

Nedemmons wanted to add the likelihood of drawing cards to the spreadsheet. At the time I was against because most cards depend heavily on individual player stats, which would make any data collected useless. But in the case of rare or presumably rare cards we may need to start asking more players to give their own rough statistic. We can do this on the spreadsheet and/or here. I'll start a forum thread for now.
Vae Victis (talk) 22:42, July 28, 2013 (UTC)
Help us fill out this option from the Bonfire: Grab whatever you can carry. It's probably an Oddities option, but I can't exactly help out...seeing as how all my time is spent trying to bury rats at the Hill or getting a kickass haircut at the Palace. :P

I'm astonished you were able to draw the Bonfire card so often in such short draws. It's not like I'm the only one; others have also tried and failed miserably. I truly believe you're an outlier example. I've drawn the other Wolfstack Docks-specific cards a handful of times while attempting to draw the Bonfire, and they also seem uncommon but not rare to me.

"We may be looking at a Z vs A scenario: Some cards are extremely rare for you but only uncommon for me, and some are the other way around. The two of us may not be statistically significant enough to determine if those cards are rare or not."

True. Between us, that's only 6 characters. Regardless, the frequency rates of rare cards are mechanically low. As a side note, I know you can trick some gaming RNG's (*thinks of "Golden Sun"*) to produce rare results by repeating certain actions under certain conditions, but I doubt this is the case for FL. I feel that there are too many variables to discern a pattern if there is one.

"But in the case of rare or presumably rare cards we may need to start asking more players to give their own rough statistic. We can do this on the spreadsheet and/or here."

...Okay, but some notes:

* My numbers might be off more or less by 10%. That's before you even take into account the number of times I've also casually drawn cards in certain areas. By "casually", I mean the times I was just passing through an area randomly without focus and flipping for the sheer joy of flipping. I only recall the #'s for my camping sessions. For example, the total of casual draws in Veilgarden might be 600 for Zeedee but 80 for an alt. Those casual #'s should be added to the camping #'s, but I really don't know what they're suppose to be... :-/
* When I camp, I normally keep my menaces low to keep their cards out of my deck.
* Once you hit PoSI, you get all sorts of deck stuffers.
* Z is at a distinct disadvantage from the others, too; he has Fate-locked, storyline and pet-related cards that the alts will never receive. My alts noticeably draw more uncommon and rare cards than him.
ZDee (talk) 00:33, July 29, 2013 (UTC)
I'll return to the docks to hunt for that card. Lets see if my luck holds (I also have to deal with my menaces which are unusually high - just to make sure nothing interferes with the draw rates).

"My numbers might be off more or less by 10%"

Understandable. I'm looking for the order of magnitude, not exact numbers. This is one reason why I don't want it to go on the spreadsheet.

"When I camp, I normally keep my menaces low to keep their cards out of my deck."

I should do this too. My scandal has gone way out of hand.

"he has Fate-locked, storyline and pet-related cards that the alts will never receive."

I knew it was a good idea to wait with the major Fate until I've exhausted most of the game's content. Luckily I only spend Nex on the minor and story unrelated things.

Edit: Got another Hymn of the Drownies. LOL.
Vae Victis (talk) 06:48, July 29, 2013 (UTC)
I've also gotten the Hymn 1-2 additional times while casually drawing cards. You read its success once and it's interesting, but seriously, why 5 actions?! Subsequent actions spent on it just make me feel guilty about how I've wasted my actions, LOL. But then I continue spending them every draw because I worry I might be missing out on a rare success... >_<
ZDee (talk) 20:35, July 29, 2013 (UTC)
My alt just drew "A little omen"! XD

I'll fill in the K&C article stub.
ZDee (talk) 23:40, July 29, 2013 (UTC)
So it wasn't retired after all. BTW, you're right the Hymn. Not worth the actions.
Vae Victis (talk) 05:55, July 30, 2013 (UTC)
I've drawn "The Departed" 3 more times since we last spoke of it. The 1st appeared roughly 3 weeks after the previous time, so that's ~700 card draws. Then it appeared twice in the following week! The 2nd and 3rd cards came once ~100 draws elapsed. For me, it's still an average of a few hundred draws per card.

On a side note, there are 5 missing results from the University storyline. Since you're currently doing it, please fill them in if you're able! These are only possible before you start your department of the Correspondence:

* A matter of honour
* Propose the final toast of the evening

These options arise after you build your Correspondence department, and they can only be done once:

* The evidence
* Set forth into the cellars

This is only for the soulless, those with their own infernal for the sake of completion, it's listed here:

* Lurk disconsolately around the margins.

EDIT: Filled one in myself! XD
ZDee (talk) 18:34, August 21, 2013 (UTC)
I won't complete the soulless one because I don't intend to lose my soul (unless I uncover that damn cat as a random oddity). The other ones are all on my (mental) to do list - I'm going through every storylet in the order they appear in the game, one after another, and fill in all the necessary info. So I'll get to them eventually.

I'll try to fill in the two Correspondence department related actions, but those are one-shot actions and failing them will come down to luck.
Vae Victis (talk) 18:48, August 21, 2013 (UTC)
I'm giving up on Report_them_to_the_college_authorities. After over a week and several attempts I concluded that it's almost impossible to fail that action. At least I grinded enough whispered rumours for a bazaar lodgings.
Vae Victis (talk) 15:34, September 16, 2013 (UTC)
Your Connected qualities weren't even challenged, right? I don't fully recall, but I doubt they were challenged when I tried it several months ago. I'll remove the Failure stub.

My 200-700 card draw rate with The Departed has continued; I typically see it once or twice every 10 days. I've encountered A Dusty Bookshop 4 times in the past 5 weeks (every 700-1,000 draws). I also found A Little Omen; it appeared ~4,200 cards after the previous time. o_O
ZDee (talk) 02:46, September 17, 2013 (UTC)
Edit: No, no quality is checked. BTW, are double challenges succeed if you pass either challenge, or only if you pass both?

The only rare success I had during this time was getting my salt weasel. I shall love him and cuddle him and call him Paddy.
Vae Victis (talk) 05:44, September 17, 2013 (UTC)
You have to pass both to succeed, if I'm not mistaken.
Delmar Tramontane (talk) 10:09, September 17, 2013 (UTC)
Definitely. I had to pass a triple challenge recently, and the rule of "best 2 out of 3" was not in play! :P Even though I repeatedly succeeded at the first two stat challenges (Watchful & Persuasive, I think), I also repeatedly failed at the third luck challenge; the game counted a single challenge failure as a complete action failure.
ZDee (talk) 13:20, September 17, 2013 (UTC)
Vae Victis (talk) 03:19, September 18, 2013 (UTC)

The Surgeon's Child[edit]

These are the collected snippets of his tale as echoed by the Bazaar on facebook and twitter starting from July 22:

"The Surgeon's Child he swam alone, across the wide black zees. The Surgeon's Child he came unknown to old charred sovereignties..."

The Surgeon's Child. He'd chosen the roof-top life, and we left him untouched, as we always do. We knew we would regret it, but fair's fair.

The Surgeon's Child. How could he know the Cladery Heart was ours? How could we know what we had done to sever it? Poor Heart. Poor boy.

The journey home was easier for the Surgeon's Child. He lay atop the Heart as its fibrils pulsed it home. Smiled at the quiet false-stars.

The journey was harder for the Heart. The waters had changed. The Neath was colder. Mt Nomad roamed here, roamed there. Years were gone.

Cladery Heart! We heard your beat approach. You were a part of us, but not our best. We had banished you away to keep the lacre clean.

Cladery Heart! The stories always end when we devour some unfortunate. We are rarely hungry. But we know our duties.

Cladery Heart! The Surgeon's Child. We understand orphans. Must we devour him too? ... well, a toothsome fragment he is.

The Cladery Heart, and the Surgeon's Child its mahout, swim into the River's mouth. There are cannonades: there are eager torrents of rats.

We cannot choose to devour our Cladery Heart. And the Child its captain, so brave, so stupid. Let us find a use for them both.

Let us kindly entreat our Masters to bind it with their wings and flocks. Set the Child atop its peak, and give him all he might desire.

The Cladery Heart wants to sail the Unterzee? We gift it a keel and a prow! Here are engines, here is a helm and a light. Here is a name.

Surgeon's Child, you ran away to zee. We understand. here's a fine prize-vessel for you. Captain it in bravery. Find what crew you can.

Surgeon's Child, we've spared the Heart. Keep it from us. We can't spare it twice. Sail North.

Surgeon's Child, haunt the zee. Set the Heart on those we warned you of. The captaincy is yours, until...

...until one comes to take it from you.
ZDee (talk) 21:26, July 29, 2013 (UTC)


You are in a colossal cave. There are seven labyrinths. None are alike. It is dark. There is no grue. Descend a well, and you will find secrets. They sell brass lanterns with the blood-apples.

You've gained 1 x Sudden Insight

...What are blood-apples? Apples with a carmine hue as deep as blood? Apples grown on a soil drenched with blood? Or do they simply bleed? And, yes, that's an access code up there.
ZDee (talk) 22:22, August 25, 2013 (UTC)

Connection issues[edit]

Do you have problems connecting to this wiki occasionally? Pages not fully loaded? "Connection was reset" error message?

For example: At the moment I can't see the images on the buttons under this text window (bold, italics, etc.). The buttons themselves are there and they work but the images that go inside of them are gone.
Vae Victis (talk) 07:36, August 2, 2013 (UTC)

Nope. My ISP is quite stable.

I know what you mean, though. I've had pages load incompletely when I was using other people's internet connections (abroad and domestic) to browse the wiki, but that infrequently occurred.

You're not seeing such issues with other websites?
ZDee (talk) 21:57, August 2, 2013 (UTC)
No, just all Wikia sites. I was hoping it was a browser issue, but it's obviously ISP related. It's like the entire Wikia domain was flagged for terrorism or something.

Because of this I won't be doing much editting for the time being. At least until I can talk some sense into my ISP.
Vae Victis (talk) 08:10, August 3, 2013 (UTC)
Pages not fully loaded: Yes. I've seen this on this wiki and other wikis so that's Wikia.

I've also seen the error messages.

(Nevermind, looked it up)
Aximillio (talk) 14:19, August 3, 2013 (UTC)
In that case it's a Wikia issue. I'll send in a bug report.
Vae Victis (talk) 15:09, August 3, 2013 (UTC)
Do tell us what the Wikia staff say.

The best I can conclude is that it may be a DNS issue. If so, you might have to wait a few days for your ISP to fully update its lookup directory.
ZDee (talk) 06:59, August 4, 2013 (UTC)
If it's a DNS issue you can try changing your Internet Protocol Version 4 (IPv4) settings. Sometimes my ISP decides that it doesn't want to connect to Fallen London, and rather than wait for it to work I just switch over to OpenDNS. Might not work, but it just takes a few moments to switch back and forth between obtaining DNS Server Addresses Automatically and going through OpenDNS.

That said, I've never had any luck in fixing a "Connection was reset" message. I've always had to wait it out, so I'm not sure this would help any.
Delmar Tramontane (talk) 08:05, August 4, 2013 (UTC)
I'll let you know when I get a reply. Delmar Tramontane, thank you for the suggestion. I'll try that later.
Vae Victis (talk) 08:13, August 4, 2013 (UTC)
OpenDNS didn't help.
Vae Victis (talk) 06:08, August 5, 2013 (UTC)
Yeah, I wasn't sure if it would. Still, it's helpful sometimes.
Delmar Tramontane (talk) 09:49, August 5, 2013 (UTC)
It seems that the problem has disappeared! I have no idea why or how, but everything seem to work normally now. So weird...

Edit: The funniest thing is that today I also got a mail from Wikia Support (they don't know of similar known issues and wanted more info). Talk about coincidence.
Vae Victis (talk) 08:14, August 6, 2013 (UTC)

Did you bug report the missing "Term Passing..." message?[edit]

I did just now. Thanks for reminding me.
Vae Victis (talk) 13:17, August 28, 2013 (UTC)


Anybody out there? I need help pronto with something simple!

Please click these links and tell me if they all work for you:

They're all broken for me and lead to 404 error pages.
ZDee (talk) 22:40, September 1, 2013 (UTC)

Aximillio (talk) 23:44, September 1, 2013 (UTC)
I'm also getting error pages.
Delmar Tramontane (talk) 00:50, September 2, 2013 (UTC)
Thanks, guys. I'm gonna report the broken links. :)
ZDee (talk) 00:58, September 2, 2013 (UTC)
Pretty much all the links on the failbetter blog are broken, really. Plus any links to blog articles elsewhere are broken as well. I dunno why, but it happened.
Spacemarine9 (talk) 01:30, September 2, 2013 (UTC)
Oh, that is weird. At first, I thought it might have been a DNS snafu on my end, which is why I asked if anyone else could connect...but it's been like this for a while? :-/ Hrm, hope they fix things soon!

By the way, this fellow:

Does anyone here know the text for the social invitation offered by "The Vake: The Truth" item?

If yes, please tell me through an in-game message or a PM at the official forum. I must admit, I am most intrigued (right up there with wanting to uncover the Counting the Days secret of the Nadir and the Übergoat option location)!
ZDee (talk) 02:45, September 2, 2013 (UTC)
I sent him a letter as soon as I found out about that little treasure trove of information! I'm going to entirely ignore what you just said and instead post a pair of screencap links. Unfortunately it's nothing particularly revelatory over and above the echoes on the mantelpiece.
Spacemarine9 (talk) 03:03, September 2, 2013 (UTC)
Awesome, thanks a lot! I actually wanted screenshots, but I thought that might set the bar too high... XD

Welp, that's 1 more great mystery of FL solved. Only another 784 to go!

Digressing, but I went to peek at our Impossible! page. There are two options that we can check now to see if they're still publicly locked, one harder than the other:

1) Burglarous Intent

Does this Knife-and-Candle option exist anymore? If not, I'd like to delete it because our K&C section is cluttered enough without the help of nonexistent options.

2) Take this demagogue for tea and muffins

Is this Iron Republic option still "Impossible!"?
ZDee (talk) 03:35, September 2, 2013 (UTC)
I checked the iron republic in June as we hadn't recorded a few of those before then. Unless something radical has happened it's still impossible.

As for K & C, I agree. It's been on my To do list for a long while but I've never gotten to it.

Are those items Kickstarter items, btw? Or is it related to Bag a legend?
Aximillio (talk) 10:21, September 2, 2013 (UTC)
They fall under the Silver Tree Kickstarter, the uppermost tier package of Master.

"Master: for Fallen London players! All Oracular backer rewards, plus we will write a short, bespoke story in Fallen London that only your character can play. You can specify what bit of Fallen London lore it’s about, and we’ll tailor it to your character’s current level."

There are 2 backers of the Master package. Tercelle von Gerthart is such a backer, who has graciously echoed his custom story and left it visible on the first few pages of his journal. :D Mega spoilery. Sweet, sweet confirmation.

If anyone knows of the second bespoke story, please drop me a line.

Aximillio, if you're wondering whether we should add the unique items here, I'm wondering the same! We didn't add FL items associated with the Silver Tree game because of the copyright crossovers, but Tercelle's items are strictly FL-based. I'd like to treat them as fate-locked items. This increases the chances of people searching for the right items and locating Tercelle's journal.
ZDee (talk) 22:18, September 2, 2013 (UTC)
Yes, treat them as fate rewards, and tell people they're backer-only rewards.
Aximillio (talk) 22:22, September 2, 2013 (UTC)
Which reminds me...the Kickstarter is tomorrow! (Or tonight if we're going by UK time standards.)

I hope FBG decides to offer add-ons like past Silver Tree Kickstarter items (Temple Club, Bitter Saker Falcon and such). I missed them the first time 'round. :(

Obviously, we'll need to blog the Sunless Sea launch into the News Feed. I don't care who gets to it first -- Jemann, you or I -- as long as someone does it! While we're at it, we have to mention the other new content, too. Making Waves --> Notability, Orphanages, Salons, what else?
ZDee (talk) 22:30, September 2, 2013 (UTC)
Agh, I'm so tired. I really have to snooze now. Please write the news feed blog about the kickstarter release. Mention the tier 3 Professions, too! Gah, I can't remember if anything else is important.

If anyone's curious, I read the Übergoat thread and I've sent my email. Chin up! Even Pandora's Box had a happy ending.
ZDee (talk) 14:11, September 3, 2013 (UTC)
The Kickstarter already started!

I donated 15 pound, couldn't resist Zubmarine and more lores. What about you?
Nedemmons (talk) 14:17, September 3, 2013 (UTC)
I'll probably go for the Pantherine Pack. I really wanted to at least get the lowest tier package which offers a FL story, the Corsair's Pack, but it's out of my budget once I convert to USD.
ZDee (talk) 14:23, September 3, 2013 (UTC)
I kind of feel we should wait till we've resolved the issue between us and FBG before we make the newspost. Just in case anything changes.

I think I'm unable to back as I don't have a credit card.
Aximillio (talk) 14:40, September 3, 2013 (UTC)
I pledged for the Navigator Pack - I might go up a reward level if my next temp job works out. Also, Aximillio - do you have a debit card? 'cause those work too.
SirFrederickChook (talk) 15:04, September 3, 2013 (UTC)
I think I'm going to get the Corsair package, coz' that's roughly how much cash dollars I made off of ratgame in a month.

A friend of mine is the person who went for the top-tier Pioneer pack, though. And, er, they put me in charge of the island and monster design. Which is mildly terrifying.

But I have Ideas. And Alexis is probably only slightly going to murder me for it.
Spacemarine9 (talk) 15:07, September 3, 2013 (UTC)
My eyes are bleeding, but I can't sleep because of all you FL punks! x_x

"I kind of feel we should wait till we've resolved the issue between us and FBG before we make the newspost. Just in case anything changes."

Hmm, okay, then I'll simply amend my old Sunless Sea news blog to reflect the kickstarter launch.

"I think I'm unable to back as I don't have a credit card."

If you're at least 18 years old or know someone of that age, purchase a gift card from a credit card company with your cash. (I don't know about Norway, but in the US, you can buy CC company authorized gift cards at major drugstores like Rite Aid and Target.) The gift card will look and act like a credit card, but it'll only have the set value of cash you entered upon purchase (the lowest cards here are $15-20 and go up to $100). I've made online CC purchases with such gift cards without problems.

"I think I'm going to get the Corsair package, coz' that's roughly how much cash dollars I made off of ratgame in a month."

That is bizarrely interesting. I must know what people purchased with their Nex, please. Extra rats??

"And, er, they put me in charge of the island and monster design. Which is mildly terrifying."

If it isn't Rat Island populated by a supersized Rat King, I shall be disappointed. FL does genuinely hint at ROUS that come from a land across the zee. Aren't the city's rattus faber preparing to wage war against them? It is completely canonical and sensible!!
ZDee (talk) 15:53, September 3, 2013 (UTC)
I'm going to be perfectly honest, one person bought the same thing about seventy times just so he could make a number go up. Probably the easiest £60 I ever made.

Rat Island is one possibility, but another idea I had was an island full of London's exiled postmen, driven mad by the constant deluge of rats being sent through the postal system. Then they ended up forming a tribe dedicated to reverence of the common (dead) rat, using it as both currency and foodstuff.

literally the pinnacle of rich narrative history, coming to a sunless sea near you soon
Spacemarine9 (talk) 15:59, September 3, 2013 (UTC)
I'm happy that one person is happy. Or at least I hope he's happy. :)

Whoa, that other idea is worthy of Alexis' WTF face. You better show us the creative dialogue between you two!

Truly, the horizons of gaming shall be broadened with this ratligion.
ZDee (talk) 16:09, September 3, 2013 (UTC)
Actually, from reading the mail it's not really that bad at all, so I'll write that newspost.

I'm not 18 *quite* yet, so that's the main issue. I've heard of cards like these before, so it's quite possible they exist. But as I live on the countryside, there's no 7 Eleven's or similar in close proximity. I'll add it to the list of things to check out the next time I'm in a city, though.
Aximillio (talk) 16:19, September 3, 2013 (UTC)
Good. Please cover the new content. :D

I'm currently choosing a font color for the Kickstarter update; I've already renamed the blog post. This is harder than you would think! SO MANY DANG HUES OF BLUE!

You've got a month to obtain one, fortunately. The gift cards should expire at least 1-2 years from purchase. If you decide not to commit to the Kickstarter, you can still use it like a regular CC at other places offline or online.
ZDee (talk) 16:34, September 3, 2013 (UTC)
I love rats, which have been amplified by you. But it is necessary for us to see the war between ROUS and L.B., too. My only hope is that it can go £95,000, so I can actually explore Unter Unterzee. I'm not even dreaming about diregible.
Nedemmons (talk) 01:29, September 4, 2013 (UTC)

Can you see the image? It's not loading at all for me, though I can see other images fine. The wiki pages which use the file aren't loading the image, either. I hope this is only a temporary hiccup.

EDIT: Oh, hell, this one too:

And this:

edit edit edit: Never mind. I guess the database was undergoing maintenance. Everything's okay now.
ZDee (talk) 02:35, September 7, 2013 (UTC)

Menace reduction[edit]

Allo allo!

Thanks for the very quick response to my menace reduction request! Please give me the chance to reciprocate. :)
Bertrandwins (talk) 08:33, September 8, 2013 (UTC)

No problemo! :)

Thanks for visiting me to nurse my wounds. It wasn't necessary, but it was quite helpful!
ZDee (talk) 10:18, September 8, 2013 (UTC)
Account beginEvent(11047); is currently avialible for meneace dump. However, it's currently in madhouse, so please wait patiently.
Nedemmons (talk) 12:35, September 8, 2013 (UTC)

Rare successes in social actions[edit]

Is it possible to add rare success to the social action template?

Miss Strangeweather discovered one in the Making_a_small_fortune action, but adding the rare manually doesn't agree with the overall layout of the article (that is, it's after the "once accepted" part, whereas it should be after the "when sent" part).
Vae Victis (talk) 20:54, September 16, 2013 (UTC)

I added new fields for "Rare Success title" and "Rare Success description" under the When Sent section. Tell me if they give you any trouble!
ZDee (talk) 03:07, September 17, 2013 (UTC)
It works well, though I wonder whether it can auto-add the action to the rare success category if you use the code:

{{#if: {{{Rare Success title|}}} | Category:Rare Success {{{Rare Success title}}} | }}
Vae Victis (talk) 05:39, September 17, 2013 (UTC)
Welp, that's that...I hope!
ZDee (talk) 13:42, September 17, 2013 (UTC)
It's perfect, thanks!
Vae Victis (talk) 03:18, September 18, 2013 (UTC)

Incomplete pages[edit]

Could you take a look over to Template:Stub and see what I've done wrong? In my thoughts it would link to Incomplete pages, but as you can see is still full of articles.... Is it just that it'll take a bit longer to work?
Aximillio (talk) 21:07, September 24, 2013 (UTC)

Ooh, nice! :) You updated all the relevant templates, right? I checked most of them and I saw that {{stub}} had been replaced with {{incomplete}}.

"Is it just that it'll take a bit longer to work?"

Yes and no... For the pages that were automatically categorized by a template like "Action", "Failure" or others, that's just system delay; the wiki database should finish sorting them within 48 hours.

For the pages that had "Article stubs" manually added, we'll have to update their categories through the editing screen.
ZDee (talk) 21:22, September 24, 2013 (UTC)
Like with, it's still categorized with "Article stubs" because I manually added that when I made the page. Category:Your Quarry's description is incomplete, so I marked it with "Article stubs". Anyway, I'll update that page now.

We should wait 1-2 days to see which pages still remain in Category:Article stubs. Then we'll update them.
ZDee (talk) 21:31, September 24, 2013 (UTC)
Ah, kay - I thought so, but it's always nice to know =) Yep, that was my plan as well - I've Ctrl+F'd for 'Template' under what links here, so i think I've found most if not all templates. We'll find out, though.

(And yep, I checked all the links in bunches of 500, not just the 50 first =P)
Aximillio (talk) 22:44, September 24, 2013 (UTC)

I'm the new auto-greeter?[edit]

Awesome. But very funny as well:

Vae Victis (talk) 14:51, September 27, 2013 (UTC)

All admins are, based on who made an edit last or so =P
Aximillio (talk) 16:08, September 27, 2013 (UTC)
Our wiki is suffering dissociative identity disorder. It doesn't know who it should be!

# Fallen London Archives
# Echo Bazaar Wiki

Our front door has the nameplate of "Fallen London Archives" while Editing Guidelines says "Hello and welcome to the Echo Bazaar Wiki, delicious friend!"

These were two separate archives in the past. Then they merged here. The game is no longer named "Echo Bazaar", so we should be Fallen London Archives, yes? Or some other name? But then that would mean having to make a new banner... :P

Sure, the front banner also states in smaller words "an unofficial Echo Bazaar wiki" but that is technically correct, so I'm willing to let it slide! Beats making a new banner.
ZDee (talk) 17:35, September 27, 2013 (UTC)
It's a reflection of a similar problem in the game itself. The official name is "Fallen London - Home of the Echo Bazaar" as seen on the home page.
Vae Victis (talk) 18:50, September 27, 2013 (UTC)


Wondering when we're making a new newspost? Things to cover: Hallowmas, Alternate Successes(?), mentioning carnival cards and location based cards. Possibly wait till the hallowmas visitors come to include those as well?
Aximillio (talk) 10:20, October 21, 2013 (UTC)

Vae should write it since he hasn't made any official news post yet. :)

Link to the Sunless Sea site:

* Kickstarter was a great success thanks to all those who pledged and/or helped spread the word
* if people pre-order the game, they can buy it at a discount
* some of the Sunless Sea characters, namely the Bandaged Poissonier and the Presbyterate Adventuress, will feature in the Hallowmas content

The Feast of Masks, a.k.a. Hallowmas, is unique holiday content (meaning it'll disappear after Halloween passes). Special visitors will only arrive if players have both Making Waves and Nightmares at level 5. Warnings:

* when the weekly Time the Healer living story arrives, MW will drop by half
* at Nightmares 7, Attracting Attention storylet vanishes
* at MW 11, some of the Attention options lock down

Visitors start coming on the 24th, so players should prepare.

Alternate successes? Well, Vae and I have been going over which actions to move from the spreadsheet's Rare Success page to the Multiple Success page. I guess he should mention that at the bottom of the newsletter to preempt questions.

Remind readers that the Location-specific Cards page has been restructured for easier navigation. Ask them to help us fill in those missing Carnival zodiac sign cards and results.

As new Hallowmas content rolls in, he should just update his news post to mention them. He can rename his news title, too, if that helps.

EDIT: I had a recent revelation about editing. ~40-50% of our readers view this wiki in Mobile Mode. The wiki doesn't allow editing in mobile mode. It leads me to think that some non-contributors aren't disinclined so much as technologically blocked. Oh well, at least they can leave comments. Anyway, tell readers that they should speak up if they find a page terribly hard to navigate in mobile mode on small PC screens (cellphones, tablets, laptops); they use the Comments section on article pages and the Talk section on category pages. They should note their screen size in both inches and centimeters because some of the editors are not metric system users and vice versa.
ZDee (talk) 00:27, October 22, 2013 (UTC)
Dude, didja use this access code yet?

ZDee (talk) 02:57, October 22, 2013 (UTC)
Yeah =D
Aximillio (talk) 09:56, October 22, 2013 (UTC)
Posted it. I don't know which location cards you're talking about (A visit?) and I have no idea about the whole Carnival thing as I don't go there ever. Please feel free to add that info. Sorry for being out of the loop. IRL stuff kept me busy.
Vae Victis (talk) 21:05, October 23, 2013 (UTC)
Okay, great. :)

The Table of Contents was behaving slightly odd, so I made minor adjustments.

"I don't know which location cards you're talking about (A visit?) and I have no idea about the whole Carnival thing as I don't go there ever."

A & I meant the new layout of Location-specific cards. It was just a standard index before we made the list. And thus we segue into the Carnival cards matter:
ZDee (talk) 22:09, October 23, 2013 (UTC)
Added those too.
Vae Victis (talk) 06:23, October 24, 2013 (UTC)
Yay! You also included the Nacreous Outcast access code, good. That's everything for now. :)
ZDee (talk) 06:32, October 24, 2013 (UTC)

An elaborate gift[edit]

I have done the reciprocate option but I can't edit it myself, I could send you a screen grab if the completed action so you can update it if you like
CptnCool (talk) 16:03, October 22, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for your contribution, screenshot and all. Unfortunately, we cannot add Nex/Fate-locked (paid) narrative content.

Reciprocate (2 FATE) only displays the introductory narrative because of this policy; the intro text is visible to all players, but the result text is only visible to those who spend Nex/Fate. We should never add the results. (If we post all the paid content here, then that would severely impact the Fallen London developers from receiving compensation for their work.) Well, thanks again for your efforts. :) Please contribute to the rest of the wiki!
ZDee (talk) 01:05, October 23, 2013 (UTC)

Possible Guide?[edit]

I recently created a text document detailing the path to take regarding the 50/51 item conversions.  That is, if you start with any one category of convertable item, such as Brilliant Souls, from the Infernal category, how to get to any of the other categories, and back around to Infernal, with the 50 for 51 item trades.  Would this be of any use?
Jimwormmaster (talk) 22:11, October 30, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, please! :)

It's relatively easy to see which items convert up in a given category, but it's hard to remember which items convert sideways.

EDIT: Maybe we should make an "Item Conversion Charts" page with tables of all the category converters. Then your sideways conversion table could be added to that page. I'm thinking of placing all the relevant Items tables onto that single page. The tables would follow the same layout we have now:

I'm trying to see what this looks like in mobile mode (maybe it's not feasible), but the ?useskin=wikiamobile function is currently disabled or something. What the heck... :-/
ZDee (talk) 06:56, October 31, 2013 (UTC)
If we could also mention which items are easy to get (with a link to actions/storylets) and give high PPA and add non-convertible common goods as well, that would be awesome, but it'd be a bit more work...
Aximillio (talk) 10:02, October 31, 2013 (UTC)
That sounds great. We could split the work into stages: place the tables (or whatever looks best) first, add Jimwormmaster's sideways conversion advice (in form of a table and/or written guide), and then link to the top PPA options for all the item categories placed under Advantage in the player Myself page.

The page name could be simplified to "Items (Guide)" with subsections for "Conversion" and "How do I get X?"
ZDee (talk) 10:37, October 31, 2013 (UTC)
Alright, then...just let me know where you want the textdump...I'm not that good at formatting tables and all that, but I'd be glad to post the list I have.  Currently it's sorted in path order, as described in the original post.
Jimwormmaster (talk) 08:13, November 1, 2013 (UTC)
Is it something like this?
Nedemmons (talk) 08:28, November 1, 2013 (UTC)
Jimwormmaster, put your tips into the new Items (Guide). :)

Nedemmons, I'm not sure if tables are what we'll use. They tend to look misshapen and give readers huge scrolling problems when they're viewed through mobile mode. I want to test some tables, but the mobile simulator skin is currently broken or disabled. Simple tables composed of 1-3 short columns are often decent in mobile mode, but the item tables are much bigger than that...

We could also make two different pages, one with tables and one without for regular readers and mobile readers.
ZDee (talk) 09:32, November 1, 2013 (UTC)
My bit would be something like column 3 of that last table on the other wiki, yeah.  The X converts 50:51 into Y converts 50:51 into Z etc. 16:22, November 1, 2013 (UTC)
Sounds like it would be nicer just to do ZDee's idea, then. An item guide would be nice in either case.
Aximillio (talk) 16:29, November 1, 2013 (UTC)
Either way, the aforementioned info has been dumped.  I'm sure those in the know about editing and all will make it all nice and pretty :P
Jimwormmaster (talk) 16:52, November 1, 2013 (UTC)

Regarding the 250 char limit:[edit]

Would permalinks to Journal entries (like this: be an alternative? The text would still be hosted on FBG's home turf and it would save us from frustratingly fragmented accounts. 21:39, October 31, 2013 (UTC)

Good Idea! I thought of something similar, with addition of Profile link. But I am unsure... Maybe someone can contact FBG? My forum account suffers from some sort of error, so I can't talk about it.
Nedemmons (talk) 05:55, November 1, 2013 (UTC)
It's an alternative, but I'm not sure if it's an acceptable one. (Personally, I like it.) I'll definitely propose it to FBG and get back to you with their response. :)
ZDee (talk) 09:11, November 1, 2013 (UTC)
It doesn't hurt to ask, but I doubt it'd get approved.

Off topic:


When you shorten the description to fit the 250 rule please make sure to let people know that it is, in fact, a shortened description. I put (...) anywhere I cut, but anything that isn't generally used in FL stories (lots of stories use triple dots, which is why I add the parentheses) would do.

Otherwise people might think that you're quoting the description in its entirety!
Vae Victis (talk) 08:37, November 2, 2013 (UTC)
This is Alexis' response:

"Permalinks for journal entries. By pure coincidence, this is in the next patch. :-) (It follows on from the journal samples on the alternate front page.) We have some things we'd like to do around player groups and making groups more discoverable - but this burst of FL functionality (some minor nice surprises for you guys in the next patch, too) can't happen often until we have Sunless Sea out of the door!"

Let's keep our thoughts positive for the next patch release! Please do not post any journal entry links in the wikia article pages till then. :)
ZDee (talk) 00:57, November 13, 2013 (UTC)
Erm... you did ask Alexis' permission before you posted his reply here for all to see, right?
Vae Victis (talk) 21:35, November 13, 2013 (UTC)
I forewarned him with "I guess you'll say no, but I need a reasonable response to show people."

That's the reasonable response I'm showing people!
ZDee (talk) 23:07, November 13, 2013 (UTC)

Category:Alexis Kennedy[edit]

What? Why?
Vae Victis (talk) 03:44, December 2, 2013 (UTC)

It'd be swell to tag the narrative content with the author names! :) Feedback letters can be more constructive for FBG this way, as well. At the least, you'll know who to ask for what.

In the game, you have to click the "Who made this storylet?" button in the upper right corner to learn the authorship. For this wiki, though, you can track the writers' pieces if you properly categorize the wiki pages.
ZDee (talk) 04:01, December 2, 2013 (UTC)
Good idea! A missing author category is here: Category:Author_missing
Vae Victis (talk) 04:17, December 2, 2013 (UTC)
Ah, nice! :D I didn't think of that.

Would it be better if we had an Author parameter in the templates? The non-Authored pages could be automatically marked with the "Author Missing" category?

I worry most about the pages with multiple text results. Maybe Author A wrote the introductory text for an option, but Authors B and C wrote the success and failure results respectively? Erk, I suppose we could add a little note at the bottom of the page for clarification. "[Note: Option introduction written by Author A. Success written by Author B. Failure written by Author C.]"?
ZDee (talk) 04:34, December 2, 2013 (UTC)
Remember what happened to us recently when we tried to update our templates? It'd be better if we didn't put extra ones - they could mess things up.

If several people wrote something we'll just put all of their categories on the page. We don't need to comment on successes or introductions because those are different articles - we can have one name on the card and different names on the action articles.

Edit: btw, you seem to know most of the authors. Do you happen to know Emily St Aubert as well? The only I got about her is she did at least one Intimate of Devils card and that she was a player.
Vae Victis (talk) 04:39, December 2, 2013 (UTC)
Oh...right...a massive mechanical update of templates is Not Our Friend.

Yeah, let's just pile their names onto the categories section. I'm cool with that till a better system comes along.
ZDee (talk) 04:46, December 2, 2013 (UTC)
Gonna add that "arthurascii" is an author I've found in some of the House of Chimes content. That's fate-locked, alas. We don't have (or know of) regular content to which we can tag his name. "arthurascii" could also be another writer's alias. Clarification, anyone?

"Edit: btw, you seem to know most of the authors. Do you happen to know Emily St Aubert as well? The only I got about her is she did at least one Intimate of Devils card and that she was a player."

I don't know them so much as what I know of them. XD Emily St Aubert is Yasmeen Khan's FL character; she's signed her stories under both names. I think she started with "EmilyStAubert" but now all the later/newer content is penned with "YasmeenKhan".

You can track the FBG crew through their twitter and forum posts. Be a stalker like me. :P
ZDee (talk) 13:46, December 8, 2013 (UTC)
Nah, I'm too paranoid to stalk them.

I've added both of her aliases into each others categories. If you play with the sub-categories on her pages you'll see they now create a lovely infinite loop. I kinda like it.
Vae Victis (talk) 13:59, December 8, 2013 (UTC)
Item conversions also give the writer credit, but we have distinct articles only for the outcomes of item conversions, not the storylet(??) where they appear. Since that part is only written in the item's article I've decided to add the article to the author's category.

Example: Jade Fragment

What do you think? Is it good as it is, or should we add a special field in the Item Action template? As much as I hate messing with the templates, this maybe the better choice because we don't know who wrote the item description text, or the selling/buying text.
Vae Victis (talk) 12:01, December 9, 2013 (UTC)
Like you, I don't want people confused over the authorship of those different sections. "Item Action" is a minor template; adding another small parameter to it shouldn't cause major problems, if any. :)
ZDee (talk) 12:52, December 9, 2013 (UTC)
Done and done.

A minor issue is that you have to write the author's name accurately for it to link to the author's category. It also auto-adds the item to the author's category (again, only if the name is correct) and if no input is present it auto-adds the item to the Author missing category.
Vae Victis (talk) 22:54, December 10, 2013 (UTC)
I made the signature small enough not to detract from the storylet options...or so I think.
ZDee (talk) 06:31, December 13, 2013 (UTC)
Either "font size = 1" is the default size, or it does nothing. The <small></small> command is better at reducing font size. I've updated the template.
Vae Victis (talk) 03:26, December 14, 2013 (UTC)
Vae, now that the wiki automatically stretches it page and font width to fit an user's computer screen size, everything looks mega big to me.

It's hilarious that "font size = 1" looks normal to you; it's 1/3 the size of my regular font to me. XD Anyway, if <small></small> works universally, let's go with that. Thanks for mentioning it. I wasn't aware of that code till now.
ZDee (talk) 03:57, December 14, 2013 (UTC)
Another try! This one with Span size = 85%. It's still small on my browser, tell me how you see it.
Vae Victis (talk) 04:14, December 14, 2013 (UTC)
The font within "Span size = 85%" "/span size" still looks unchanged on my screen. The "small" code works best.
ZDee (talk) 04:24, December 14, 2013 (UTC)
What do you mean by unchanged? Is it still stretching everything on your screen or are the words just the same size as everything else?
Vae Victis (talk) 04:27, December 14, 2013 (UTC)
The words within the "span size" code look the same size (length & width) as the words outside of it.

I tried to find an option to reduce my visible wikia screen size, but there was no such thing in Preferences. :-/ Ah well, I've mostly adjusted to the monolith nature, anyway.
ZDee (talk) 04:32, December 14, 2013 (UTC)
If it's isn't as bad as the Small was, lets keep it like this for now and see how the other see it. Maybe it's something wrong with your browser, or maybe my browser is broken and can't react to Font size =1. We need an outside arbiter!
Vae Victis (talk) 04:35, December 14, 2013 (UTC)
We need more viewers to chime in! Anyway, I use Firefox 25.0.1 as my browser. My PC screen is 19 inches (~48 centimeters) wide, though; I believe this is the contributing factor to how font displays since Wikia attempts to stretch the font across larger screens.
ZDee (talk) 01:39, December 15, 2013 (UTC)

ZDee wrote:

I made the signature small enough not to detract from the storylet options...or so I think.

This text looks tiny to me.
Delmar Tramontane (talk) 02:43, December 15, 2013 (UTC)

ZDee wrote:

We need more viewers to chime in! Anyway, I use Firefox 25.0.1 as my browser. My PC screen is 19 inches (~48 centimeters) wide, though; I believe this is the contributing factor to how font displays since Wikia attempts to stretch the font across larger screens.

I have the same specs. Twinsies!

Delmar, what are your specs?
Vae Victis (talk) 03:30, December 15, 2013 (UTC)
Firefox 25.0.1 and I'm not sure how wide (can't find any rulers in my house when I want them >_>). Screen Resolution is best at 1280 X 768 if that helps.
Delmar Tramontane (talk) 04:22, December 15, 2013 (UTC)
I use Chrome 31.0.1650.63 and the small text looks small and I see no difference with other text.
Aximillio (talk) 13:58, December 15, 2013 (UTC)
So, do we keep this template setting or revert to one of the others?
Vae Victis (talk) 22:57, December 15, 2013 (UTC)
Final test to confirm! Everyone, please say what looks like tiny text to you:

A) I'm a little teapot. Short and stout!

B) Here is my handle. Here is my spout!

C) When I get all steamed up, hear me shout!

A and B look like the same miniature size to me. C is still the regular font size.
ZDee (talk) 01:38, December 16, 2013 (UTC)
A looks the smallest, B looks slightly bigger, and C is the regular font size.
Delmar Tramontane (talk) 02:27, December 16, 2013 (UTC)
Oh, you're right! B is somewhat larger than A. I should have looked more carefully -- at my own coding, no less. XD
ZDee (talk) 02:46, December 16, 2013 (UTC)
Same as delmar.
Aximillio (talk) 11:01, December 16, 2013 (UTC)
B the smallest, A and C normal.

I guess I'm an outlier.  If A is the smallest for everyone else, than A is the way to go.
Vae Victis (talk) 02:00, December 17, 2013 (UTC)
Then let's use the universal-working <small></small> code for author signatures.

A is a tad too tiny, uncomfortably so!

B is best, after all. :)
ZDee (talk) 02:53, December 17, 2013 (UTC)
B is small, but not uncomfortably small.
Aximillio (talk) 16:12, December 17, 2013 (UTC)

Thank you![edit]

Thanks for the Surprise Package! A gift of Correspondence Plaques always brighten my day. :) to bandage my head.
Delmar Tramontane (talk) 01:47, December 7, 2013 (UTC)

My zee-bat got confused about the date. Totally not me. Nopers. >_>

(It's already Saint Rattus Day in England. When I sent my package, I forgot you're located on the east coast of the US -- oh well, an early present!)
ZDee (talk) 02:00, December 7, 2013 (UTC)
Ah, my mistake. 

(Sending it to me early gives you more chances to celebrate Saint Rattus Day too. ^^  Well, unless the card was a Fate draw.)
Delmar Tramontane (talk) 02:08, December 7, 2013 (UTC)
I can tell the difference between 6 and 7, I swears!

(This week, I've only had two characters based in the city. They held onto their gift cards for special occasions: one to send to you, and the other for Faber Festivus. I'm going to spend a bit of Fate to force-draw the gift card if I can think of any excruciatingly puntastic messages.)
ZDee (talk) 02:16, December 7, 2013 (UTC)
Neither you nor the bat were confused! You sent it early just in case something happened to delay it.

(Ah, good use of small bits of Fate.)
Delmar Tramontane (talk) 02:42, December 7, 2013 (UTC)

A Storeylet Style Newbie Guide[edit]

I pitched this idea at the Advice for new players topic of Failbetter's forum.

Although the Beginner's Guide is very helpful, newbies might be intimidated by that wall of text. 

So I'll ask if it's not against the wikia's rules to make a storylet style newbie guide. I can think of the following benefits:

* The guide's text would be chopped into various storylets so that addresses the wall of text issue.

* A mysterious benefactor may be used as the storylets' narrator so it would mesh well with FL's atmosphere.

* It also gives us an excuse to create (hopefully good) fanfics.
Pyrodinium (talk) 02:54, December 14, 2013 (UTC)

The game actually used to possess a longer introductory tutorial and prison break. The intro has been revised multiple times; I'm not sure how it currently looks and acts. Welp, it shouldn't hurt to make our own tutorial storylet thingamajig. The idea of having multiple beginner tutorial type things for players to choose from sounds great, anyway!

I'm gonna hire a ghostwriter to change the narrative tone of "Beginner's Guide" to a more entertaining one. As it stands, I don't believe its key weakness is its length so much as its style of expression. I want to engage readers, and the stolid tone of the guide doesn't lend itself to that sort of reaction. Yes, it's dependable as a friend...but not exciting as a lover? :P Some people do prefer a dry and clear walkthrough, I'm aware. That's why I'm thinking of two different versions: stolid (but long?) and silly (but short?). Your storylet guide is an interesting third option. Please go ahead with its production.

It's not illegal to post fanfiction or other fanwork here. XD I've been thinking of this myself, splitting the wiki into three notable sections:

* Game Archive (cards/storylets and their results)
* Encyclopedia (player guides and informative articles like a classic encyclopedia)
* Fan Base (collection of fanwork)

[I'm not shooting from my mouth here; I've come across these suggestions several times in the past months publicly and privately. I do remember player ideas.]

Note: For every piece of fanwork posted on the wiki, a link back to Fallen London and a copyright notice must accompany it (that the pieces are based on the original ideas, images and other creative content of Failbetter Games). We could make a template to automatically add that stuff.

The three sections will need to have all their relevant pages marked with the Archive, Encyclopedia, or Fanwork categories to prevent reader confusion.

I've digressed enough. Back to the newbie guide issue: would someone please update the beginner introduction pages of EB@wikidot?


That's our sister site. Take care of her, someone, anyone?
ZDee (talk) 03:51, December 14, 2013 (UTC)


I'll add a Failbetter disclaimer to any of the storylets that I create. I guess I should start constructing it then :)

Yeah, I think two newbie guide versions could cater to more of the audience. A straightforward, mathematical style for the gamers and a silly or engaging style for readers (I'm talking about extreme gameplays here. There are some who can focus on both).

Well I hope our sister site will get the TLC that it deserves. For now I'll focus on the Wikia.
Pyrodinium (talk) 06:35, December 14, 2013 (UTC)

Behold the cat[edit]

Should we make a new template for rare failure or consider it a rare success?
Aximillio (talk) 21:06, December 22, 2013 (UTC)

You mean the result of uncovering the Starveling Cat? I would consider that a rare success. You got me all excited. I thought something had changed, but apparently not..?

EDIT: I see what you mean now. We can list the "Black as a spirifer's heart" and "The Starveling Cat! The Starveling Cat!" results as Success 1 and Success 2. The Midnight Matriarch result could be listed as the new Rare Success. :)
ZDee (talk) 00:38, December 23, 2013 (UTC)
Works, thx =P
Aximillio (talk) 01:04, December 23, 2013 (UTC)

Getting to Know Cobblestone Rogues and Back-Alley Saints?[edit]

I'm going through the early game storylets again with a secondary character, and noticed (very belatedly, I'm an idiot like that sometimes) that this quality doesn't seem to appear anymore. It isn't shown as a requirement for the Pianist/Spirifer storylets, and actions that used to give CP for it (e.g. Find a watchmaker without too many scruples) don't seem to do so now. Not showing up on my list of qualities either. I'm guessing everyone's characters are way past this level, but would you happen to know anything about this?
JC Scarr (talk) 05:38, December 24, 2013 (UTC)

I think they reworked both stories that used it and removed the quality from play. Time the Healer even wiped it from everybody's quality list just to make sure it's gone.
Delmar Tramontane (talk) 05:59, December 24, 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for reminding us, JC Scarr! :)

Let's retire the "Getting to Know Cobblestone Rogues and Back-Alley Saints" category page. Any page which mentions it as an Unlock requirement should be updated.
ZDee (talk) 22:27, December 24, 2013 (UTC)

"Failbetter" as author?[edit]

Noticed two storylets with "Failbetter made me." - A dream about the mist and It's time to hire a locksmith. So is the author category "Failbetter"?

Edit: Same goes for A Strange and Lonely Place and A dream about descending into darkness.
JC Scarr (talk) 10:33, January 1, 2014 (UTC)

Aximillio (talk) 13:32, January 1, 2014 (UTC)
In that case, don't add an Author category. Just add to the storylets which specify a name.

I'm not sure whether we should continue to bother, though. It seems as if FBG is transitioning to an all-encompassing "Failbetter made me." signature; I've spotted some older content re-signed this way.
ZDee (talk) 22:08, January 1, 2014 (UTC)

Ambition: Enigma[edit]

Not sure if we're allowed to record this, but this and this link might be useful once you get ambition to 1.
Aximillio (talk) 04:48, January 5, 2014 (UTC)


We should record the playable Clay Man character content here, as well. What should be its category name?
ZDee (talk) 05:50, January 5, 2014 (UTC)
I think it should be categorized under Ambition:Enigma, since it appears there.
Aximillio (talk) 15:58, January 5, 2014 (UTC)
I would help but none of my characters are there... They exist elsewhere.
ZDee (talk) 16:02, January 5, 2014 (UTC)

Opportunity card frequency?[edit]

Should we record the frequency for opportunity cards? (Although I've not seen anything other than "This card appears with Standard frequency" so far.)

Also, author attribution has completely vanished, I think... huh.
JC Scarr (talk) 06:09, January 5, 2014 (UTC)

Yes, we should mark the frequency of cards! :)

Even though it's simpler to write out "Rare, Standard, Frequent, Unusual", it's not self-explanatory enough for new readers. The wiki pages for opportunity cards typically have far less categories than pages for storylets and action options, so it shouldn't hurt to use longer category names like "Rare Frequency, Standard Frequency, Frequent Frequency, Unusual Frequency" and so on. (Those categories in turn should be subsections of a general "Card Frequency" category, preferably with a % range for each band of frequency if we learn the information.)

Er, I suppose the author attribution project shall be placed on hiatus. A significant amount of the game's narrative content has been revised in minor or major ways by other authors, but only the author who first created the content had their signature penned. Subsequent collaborators weren't credited, so now it's too difficult to efficiently track everyone's work. (Alexis or someone elese from FBG explained this on the official forum somewhere, I forget where, sorry!) Perhaps the authorship feature will return one day when everyone gets their signatures sorted. XD
ZDee (talk) 06:26, January 5, 2014 (UTC)
Okay! Though I do wonder if we'll ever get those percentages.

Also, Exotica: Something rare has been abandoned here doesn't seem to have a frequency...
JC Scarr (talk) 13:19, January 5, 2014 (UTC)
Interesting. What about other autofire (red-bordered) cards, exotica in particular? Do they also lack the Frequency feature?

I'm sorta hoping StoryNexus gets updated with the Frequency code. That way, the SN manual will likely be edited to include % info and we could copy it here. :P
ZDee (talk) 16:00, January 5, 2014 (UTC)
Just got A dream about a corridor lined with brass mirrors, and no Frequency either - I'm guessing it's the same for all autofire cards?
JC Scarr (talk) 04:05, January 10, 2014 (UTC)
I guess the devs just haven't added a place to display the frequency for autofire cards.

Tangentially, it looks like autofire cards can't be marked as non-discardable either (e.g. cards in Newgate Prison).
Jemann (talk) 23:08, January 21, 2014 (UTC)

Aximillio's new card and storylet templates[edit]

I see you've started adding them to articles. I'd like to repeat myself: Shouldn't we drop the auto-link altogether and instead use an open field? So that we could put more things in the template?
Vae Victis (talk) 21:15, January 21, 2014 (UTC)

I wouldn't personally mind, and you know my penchant for listing options here in the order that they're shown in the game.

My sole worry is that people unfamiliar with Wikia's code would be confused as to how to link within templates, especially if they're already comfortable with the auto-linking. Templates are suppose to make the editing process easy for amateurs.

I'm not too fussed about it either way, though. If you decide it might help editors more than it might hinder them, then drop the auto-link feature. What does everyone else think?

By the way, thanks for updating the wordmark logo and adding "Game Instructions"! :)
ZDee (talk) 21:54, January 21, 2014 (UTC)
I've been looking for a way to make some sort of a template that can get both arguments (Listen and Listen 6) and link appropriately, but it's beyond my abilities.

You and Aximillio (he's been quiet lately...) are right - the current version is the best for novice editors.
Vae Victis (talk) 19:23, January 25, 2014 (UTC)

New monkey image[edit]

I saw you managed to update the monkey image. I tried to do it twice and each time Wikia just kept the old image (while still saying that the image was updated). How did you do it?
Vae Victis (talk) 15:45, February 12, 2014 (UTC)

It probably worked properly, you just didn't know it. The caching sometimes just insists on showing the older image for a day if you upload a new one.
MidnightVoyager (talk) 17:46, February 12, 2014 (UTC)
Yeah, what MidnightVoyager said. Wikia was being weird, though; it normally takes 10 seconds to 1 hour for image overrides to succeed, but your photo remained untouched far longer than that. I decided to re-upload the monkey photo as a shoulder tap to the system.
ZDee (talk) 18:28, February 12, 2014 (UTC)
Thanks you both for the explanation. Sometimes it's like Wikia is sending little hints that it hates my guts (and you don't even want to know what kind of mail I get from it) :(
Vae Victis (talk) 18:31, February 12, 2014 (UTC)
Sometimes you need to clear your browser cache. Other times, adding '?action=purge' to the end of the address will give wikia an overt nudge. We've all been there...
Jemann (talk) 23:55, February 16, 2014 (UTC)
Oh cool, thanks! I always clear my cache when these things happen, but your trick will sure come in handy!
Vae Victis (talk) 23:58, February 18, 2014 (UTC)

Added a note in Social Actions guide[edit]

Just a tiny note.

Apparently I forgot that Social Actions come with their own pictures. I've added that feature in, but a side effect of that is that each relevant template must begin with something even if there is no picture present. I went for a simple dash (see here: Benefit from flattery at Dante's Grill), but I'm thinking of changing that to the envelope picture as the default.

When you accept actions (or get any sort of message) that seems the default image. You know about social actions more than me - are there any messages without any image? Is that really the default?
Vae Victis (talk) 21:43, February 21, 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for adding that teeny tiny eenie meenie note. ;)

Your descriptions of the usage of each template parameter is much appreciated. Maybe there should be a separate guide for Templates, and what their individual fields mean? You could basically copy what you've typed up for "Social Action" to "Action".

Yes, all the notes on the right column of accepted Messages seem to use the envelopesmall.png icon. Automatic use of that as the default icon in the Accepted sections of the Sender and Receiver templates should be fine!

Please update the Templates list with your new templates. Ah, it should also mention that "Card" and "Storylet" are the preferred versions now.
ZDee (talk) 00:28, February 22, 2014 (UTC)
Technically, the /doc part of any template should list this, but I don't think anyone ever reads that. But maybe I could make collapsible tables like this on the Templates page so that they won't be too overwhelming.

Speaking of which, there other social action templates like Template:Friend Invite or template:Social Actions - Contest that look like they could be replaced by the three new ones without losing anything. The problem is with Template:Social Actions - Attack because it acts differently. All of the old templates have the same problem - they're a pain to edit and use.

So, seeing how I don't play K&C and don't invite people, what do you think - how should I change the new templates to be proper replacements? Or should there be two-three new templates just for K&C?
Vae Victis (talk) 02:27, February 22, 2014 (UTC)
I haven't played K&C in several months! Ah, you're better off inquiring Jemann and Aximillio about the K&C social templates.
ZDee (talk) 04:35, February 23, 2014 (UTC)
Will do.
Vae Victis (talk) 15:40, February 24, 2014 (UTC)