User talk:Aximillio/Archive

This is the default talk page text.

Welcome to Echo Bazaar Wiki!

Hi, welcome to Fallen London Wiki! Thanks for your edit to the Inciting a Simian Revenge? page.

Please leave me a message if I can help with anything!
Wikia (talk) 22:43, January 6, 2013 (UTC)

Measuring you for a small, velvet-lined box

"Shall we convert this to a menace?"

Category:Attracting Attention in the Orphanage

I think the more pressing question here is "What are the cures for this horror?". Look, I listed Plagued by a Popular Song as a menace. Calling this particular case of orphanage attention a menace would be an understatement. (<-- Ooh, do you spot the two nudges to burial I made here?) If there are cures for this, please put them in the Menace Cures category. My Light Fingers alt would love to know...
ZDee (talk) 22:24, March 17, 2013 (UTC)

So far, the only cure I've found is to visit the box. That's not a very cosy cure.
Aximillio (talk) 22:26, March 17, 2013 (UTC)

That's...good...to know. The problem seems to be that it's overly cosy.

Yep, stick it under Menaces.
ZDee (talk) 22:30, March 17, 2013 (UTC)

Found another cure (but i forgot to add the page)

You lose all when you finish off the Orphanage part of the ambition.
Aximillio (talk) 19:56, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. Do you mean this page?

Leave the Orphanage's labyrinth

Did you see a message like this?

Your 'Attracting Attention in the Orphanage' Quality has gone!

Or did it simply vanish without warning from the Qualities section of your inventory page? Either way, don't worry about it. I'm sure someone will get around to archiving it. :)
ZDee (talk) 02:00, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

No, that storylet doesn't clear attracting attention. I mean the choice to either burn down the Orphanage or free the Urchins at Light Fingers ~48

It's bound to get archived sometime =/
Aximillio (talk) 14:27, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

"Hope there aren't any more Nightmares with wrong pics now..."

In my 500+ page experience with updating those icons, lemme tell ya: there's ALWAYS more. Those buggers pop up in the darnedest places.

Thanks for creating and updating the new Spouse page! :)

Since you're here... *grabs you by the collar* :D ...let's re-catalog some other story qualities that have been renamed:

Fingerwork --> Touched by Fingerwork

The Eyes of Icarus --> Seeing through the Eyes of Icarus

Falling Cities --> Walking the Falling Cities

The Gates of the Garden --> Approaching the Gates of the Garden

I'll take two and you take the other two. I'll let you pick which categories. What say you?!
ZDee (talk) 23:17, March 18, 2013 (UTC)

I have to do that tomorrow or so, or I'll make tons of errors. You choose =)
Aximillio (talk) 23:22, March 18, 2013 (UTC)

I'll handle the top half, Fingerwork and Eyes of Icarus.

You can be bothered by the bottom half, Falling Cities and Gates of the Garden. I am trusting you with this tedious task. Don't run away. I know where you live! (On the FL forums, anyway.)
ZDee (talk) 23:27, March 18, 2013 (UTC)

Fixed the remaining icons :) (pro tip: shows all pages that display it).
Jemann (talk) 02:13, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

How odd! I checked the file info for the older image and didn't catch them all previously, though I thought I did do that... I guess that's human error on my part. This is why multiple editors are necessary. :)
ZDee (talk) 02:22, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

Dropping in to say that I edited the Ambition links again in the Quicklist page. It's because we have Story pages and Category pages that use the same name. For instance, we have to specify [:Category:Ambition: Bag a Legend!] in the code or else you'll link to the Watchmaker Hill's storylet page which is also named [Ambition: Bag a Legend!]

Personally, the most distressing links are related to the Heart's Desire ambition:

Veilgarden Unlock Storylet -

Ambition:_Heart's_Desire! (fair enough...)

Category Page -

Category:Ambition:Heart's Desire (notice the lack of space in front of the "H" and no exclamation point behind "Desire" even though FL uses the name "Ambition: Heart's Desire!"?)

Subsections of Storyline -

Arrange a donation

An old enmity

(FL doesn't use an ! behind "Desire" when referring to a subsection like the Bishop of Fiacre or the Topsy King)

Did you catch all that? You might have to reread it several times. I took a long time to realize the inconvenient truth. :-[
ZDee (talk) 07:45, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

IKR, Jemann, they must have slipped, there's some legit entries there as well (Tale of Terror!!, whispers and Hearing things). Was considering eradicating :Category:Nightmares|Nightmares and such as well, but Falling Cities and Garden should be more important. (My tools (on the bar) -> What links here ftw.)

@Z, I've been thinking about that. Do you think we should move story one to Heart's Desire 0 or so and have a 'If you were looking for blahblahblah, check out this page' at the top of the Category page? It's not the worst scenario, I'm sure there can be a lot more complicated ones. Or shall we just keep those at :Category:?

And yes, Fallen London is a little confusing at times in relation to punctuation and such. Tales of Terror!! always bother me... Do you think we should just subtly add a ! after Heart's Desire, to make them similar?
Aximillio (talk) 09:10, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

Most of the frequently-used categories have proper redirect links so something like [Nightmares] goes to the right category page without using [:Category:]. The Ambitions are merely specific cases that share both a Story page and a Category page, thus the need for [:Category:].

I know I wasn't the only one confused because I randomly clicked several Heart's Desire pages yesterday and half of them were linked to the Story page when they should have gone to the Category page. I didn't fix them...yet. I guess all the Ambition categories have such issues and I'll proofcheck their links later.

"Do you think we should move story one to Heart's Desire 0 or so and have a 'If you were looking for blahblahblah, check out this page' at the top of the Category page"

Agreed, it sounds like a great idea to me. Rename the Ambition Story pages to "So-and-So 0" and use their Story pages as redirect pages for Ambition Categories:

1) rename Story page Ambition:_Bag_a_Legend! to "Ambition: Bag a Legend! 0"

2) edit Story page Ambition:_Bag_a_Legend! to redirect to "Category:Ambition: Bag a Legend!"

3) put Ambition 0 links near top of their respective category pages with a note saying "This is the first step to pursuing your goal yada yada".



Let's wait to see what Jemann and any other editors have to say before making any major changes. I'm not trying to exclude anyone. It's just that you're the only two editors I hear from lately. :(

Either way, we should fix that bloody Heart's Desire category; make a new one with the FL name Ambition: Heart's Desire! and move/relink all the related pages there. FL Trivia: Nemesis is the sole ambition not to use an ! in its story name.

I think the two !'s in "Tales of Terror!!" signify "whatever horrifying thing you're thinking of right now...double it!" haha. :D
ZDee (talk) 18:22, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

@ZDee: that three-step plan sounds like a fine solution. Make it so!

Another thing Ambition-related: some of them have sub-qualities e.g. Nemesis has Nemesis - Forgotten Quarter and Nemesis - the Shuttered Palace. Ideally, I think those should be sub-categories of the main ambition category (although if you guys disagree I'm happy to drop it). Here's one I just created.
Jemann (talk) 21:54, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

@Je, sounds like a good idea - made some redirects and such. It might be easier to navigate now. Feel free to make the Ambition 0 links better =P
Aximillio (talk) 22:22, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

Does either of you know if it's still possible to get Heart's Desire: Scrawled Notes on the Walls anymore?

Also, shall I remove E.G. The topsy King 3 from Category:HD as well as adding it to Category:HD-TK or shall I simply add them?
Aximillio (talk) 22:50, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

@Jemann

That's Aximillio's idea. Let him do everything! ;)

Subcategories for such portions of Ambitions sound good. All the Ambition category pages also need their Progress sections updated.

@Aximillio

Yo, good work coming up with that 0 link idea. Now make it so!

...Okay, I'll help. *looks at Recent Wiki Activity log* Wait, are you seriously going to do everything yourself? I ain't stopping ya if that's what you want.
ZDee (talk) 23:03, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

I was thinking of doing HD categories and such, since I've never done Nemesis.

Also, see edit above.
Aximillio (talk) 23:07, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

Hold up. Make new category pages using the right spelling and punctuation before updating any more HD pages!

Ambition:Heart's Desire --> Ambition: Heart's Desire!

Subcategories:

Ambition: Heart's Desire - The Bishop of St Fiacre's

Ambition: Heart's Desire - the Topsy King

(Yes, only the "The" in Fiacre's is capitalized.)

The Scrawled Notes on the Walls is a story quality; not an actual item, right? I remember having to raise the quality to 5 or thereabouts before I could learn the route to the Forgotten Quarter. I did this last summer. I'm sure that story branch is still around.

I'll add the 0 links and their descriptions.

EDIT: I think you should add both the main category and subcategory to pages like Topsy King for indexing purposes.
ZDee (talk) 23:19, March 19, 2013 (UTC)

Kay, cheers
Aximillio (talk) 09:11, March 20, 2013 (UTC)

*Think* I'm finished with HD now - please inspect the work.
Aximillio (talk) 19:58, March 27, 2013 (UTC)

"Does it look better?"

I'm really grateful you added a cell for the Late Game section, but please remove the entire Reward portion from the Mid-Game cell section. The lengthy and scrunched icons in the Mid-Game Reward portion puts excess strain on the eyes.

If you could also magically learn to make text collapsible and expandible, that would be wonderful! (*hint Quicklist hint*)
ZDee (talk) 21:26, March 21, 2013 (UTC)

Are you bored? If so, I have a suggestion to intensify that boredom:

Category:Curiosity

Create an alphabetical list with icons of all the Curiosities. :P It's something from my "Tedious Wiki Tasks" list. I figure we can share the "fun".

Oh no, you removed your Item portion from the Late Game cell... That was helpful. Put the Appreciation Society back! *spank*
ZDee (talk) 21:48, March 21, 2013 (UTC)

Starveling Cat

Does anyone need one? If so I've got a spare one.
Aximillio (talk) 20:22, March 31, 2013 (UTC)

<_<  .   .   .  >_>

* slowly raises hand* My new alt Harmony Lightheart will need one in the near future.

I know, I know, what an awful name! It's highly appropriate for an awful fate.
ZDee (talk) 01:31, April 1, 2013 (UTC)

Huzzah, thank you very much! :D

* stares at your StoryNexus name* ...Is this your camaflauge to avoid knife-wielding maniacs in the dark streets of London? *wink*
ZDee (talk) 04:11, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

It's not working very well due to myself stabbing me instead...
Aximillio (talk) 08:06, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

Another cat will be yours tomorrow.
Aximillio (talk) 22:35, April 4, 2013 (UTC)

Really?! :D Thanks a lot!

Is it true that a Seeker needs 4? Each cat is worth 2 stains on your soul or something? :p
ZDee (talk) 08:20, April 5, 2013 (UTC)

Personally I only ever got to 1 stain, and that cost me a cat. It's possible some stains are free though. Also, you can use fate if you so wish.
Aximillio (talk) 09:50, April 5, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, but I doubt I'll pay for Fate to wreck a Seeker-specific alt. It feels so counterproductive...even though I know it's supposed to bring progress. Zee Dee is also the only character for whom I purchase Fate/Nex. If anyone's curious and willing to slog through a lot of pages, his fated exploits are logged in his journal.

Edit: StoryNexus ID is Zeedee, but Fallen London ID is Zee Dee.
ZDee (talk) 10:11, April 5, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the third Starveling Kitty! Gosh, you must be breeding them something fierce.

I'm starting to believe that the Starveling Cat is Mr Eaten's pet. Perhaps it was a present from one of the Royal family members back in the Second City. Then again, the sidebar snippet for Starveling Kitty is "Starveling Kitty! Starveling Kitty! Ruled the roofs of five stolen cities!", so maybe Mr Eaten owned it as early as the First City.

There's also this other hint-ish snippet for the Starveling Cat:

"Whose name's on your collar Mr Starveling Cat?"

"Come closer, my dear, if you want to read that..."

There, a pet collar! How cute... I bet the owner's name is written with the Correspondence and likely to set your eyes afire merely from glancing at it.

A terrible notion has arrived: Seekers will need 77 Starveling Cats to make a candle.
ZDee (talk) 19:22, April 10, 2013 (UTC)

Actually, this seems plausible. I mean, where do the cats otherwise come from?
Aximillio (talk) 19:39, April 10, 2013 (UTC)

One Starveling Cat is frightening enough. An entire squadron of them? Yeesh, get me a dirigible for the Surface! I don't see what would stop it from breeding, really. If anything, it's probably turning its kitten litters into candles. *shudder*

At first, I thought the Starveling Cat was just a rogue devil in disguise as a cat what with all the soul stealing. Then I read more of the storyline; now I think it's both Mr Eaten's pet and an advanced Seeker. Maybe it even has the Duchess' support. If Mr Eaten returns, she can join him in taking vengeance on the Masters and the Bazaar...if she's into that sort of thing. I'm not making any scandalous allegations!
ZDee (talk) 19:49, April 10, 2013 (UTC)

Foxfire candle stubs...?
Aximillio (talk) 20:55, April 10, 2013 (UTC)

Naw, I meant the Seeker type candles along the lines of St Arthur and St Beau.

Isn't the mystery of Foxfire Candle Stubs already solved?

https://community.failbettergames.com/t/why-are-there-no-foxes-in-the-city/9210/3

My extended theory:

The Black Mountain is an active volcano on the Elder Continent, the place where the foxes reside. The magma and ash from the Black Mountain boils and kills surrounding plants and animals, which then creates hardened wax from their remains. As tradesmen go to collect the wax, they pass the foxes who happen to live nearby. ...And that's the explanation for "foxfire" candles?

There's a bunch of notable mountains in the Neath. I sometimes get them confused: the Mountain of Light (related to the Garden and based in the Elder Continent), the Black Mountain (located far South, possibly the Elder Continent), and the black Zee-mountain (the one made of black glass which "traps sailors" or some such thing). The last two are mentioned when you Tell tall tales with the Salty Fabulist but for all I know, they're the same mountain viewed from different angles (on land and in the sea).
ZDee (talk) 21:52, April 10, 2013 (UTC)

Wasn't there also a thread about the rare success for the top item being "all I've told till now is only lies" or something? They all carry some part of the truth, but I don't believe we've heard the end of this tale just yet. I hope not, in either case.
Aximillio (talk) 22:12, April 10, 2013 (UTC)

The failure text for converting Glim to Map Scraps:

I used to skipper the Oxford Shore, so I did. Until a terrible zee-beast cost me a ship and an eye. Half a shark it were, and half a sheep. I can still hear the savage bleating of it when the tide turns...

...This guy obviously can't be trusted. :P

Yeah, the Salty Fabulist is telling half-truths. I don't recall reading a thread about the rare success for converting to Puzzling Maps, and it doesn't seem to be archived here or at EB wikidot.

I'm sure we'll be bombarded with answers to intriguing questions once the Elder Continent opens! :)
ZDee (talk) 22:39, April 10, 2013 (UTC)

While we're talking about item conversions, would it be handy to have a category for them?
Aximillio (talk) 12:32, April 11, 2013 (UTC)

I think they're best organized with the tables we already use.

The item conversions do need updates, though. We're missing some S/RS/F results. Most of their luck challenges have changed, too; "pretty good odds" has changed to "it could go either way".
ZDee (talk) 14:23, April 11, 2013 (UTC)

I'm currently updating some of the successes.
Aximillio (talk) 14:38, April 11, 2013 (UTC)

Okay, great!

The item conversion results usually have good clues or teasers for current and future game content. I love reading them; I feel like I get closer to completing a 10,000-piece jigsaw puzzle.
ZDee (talk) 14:45, April 11, 2013 (UTC)

prominent "a", "an", and "the"

"Btw, I guess qualities starting on 'the' are categorised alphabetically under T?"

That's how I'm listing it. If we ignored "the", then we'd have also have to ignore "a" and "an". Let's give these words their due! They are short of stature but stout of heart. ;)
ZDee (talk) 01:30, April 1, 2013 (UTC)

Kay, just figured I could ask =P
Aximillio (talk) 12:02, April 1, 2013 (UTC)

Just wondering, where do you find the list of images from?
Aximillio (talk) 16:38, April 1, 2013 (UTC)

I'm browsing our Photo gallery for pictures that I think might lack a small or big icon.

FL's icon URL is always http://images.echobazaar.failbettergames.com/icons/***.png where *** stands for the image name.

You've probably noticed that all their small icons are appropriately named "***small.png" for easy cataloging.

The Radical Factotum is chap6.png and I added the word "small" to find his miniature portrait. Then I wondered if we had chap1-5 (we do) and if there were chaps6-10 to add... That's how I found our mystery men chap7 and chap8. :) By the way, the women often go by "bohogirl*.png" where * is any number (found no new pics).

I also noticed that the Mr Eaten candles (at least the first 2) go by the name "candle*.png", but it's quite a guess as to what * is for each candle. The 1st is candleeye.png and the 2nd is candlescream.png so I assume the other 5 will follow this pattern.
ZDee (talk) 16:53, April 1, 2013 (UTC)

http://images.echobazaar.failbettergames.com/ show names of all icons (and other images) up to fezman.png. I haven't found anything similar for fe-z, though =/

Currently only Candleeye and candlescream is uploaded. I think Mr Arendt needs to make others first.
Aximillio (talk) 16:59, April 1, 2013 (UTC)

Good point! You can find sneak peeks of new pics that way! Up to the fezman, anyway.
ZDee (talk) 17:05, April 1, 2013 (UTC)

What's derringergold.png?
Aximillio (talk) 17:08, April 1, 2013 (UTC)

Maybe it's an upcoming Bazaar weapon! Looks like it might be ratwork, fine craftsmanship... I also wouldn't be surprised to learn it's a new K&C booster item.
ZDee (talk) 17:15, April 1, 2013 (UTC)

Aha, I looked up the API; here are some more images to pore (paw?) through:

http://images.echobazaar.failbettergames.com/?marker=icons/fanggloveredsmall.png

http://images.echobazaar.failbettergames.com/?marker=icons/suitfadedsmall.png

[modified to cover whole set]
Jemann (talk) 09:43, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

WHOOOOA, SUPER SKILLS: YOUS HAS THEM!

(I best I could do was put a "1" or a "2" in front to try 2images.echobazaar.blahblah and it didn't work, obviously...)

Let's pore, paw, and pour these images! At least 2 of us should go over the lists; we're much less likely to miss a delicious new picture that way.

EDIT: What does "API" mean?
ZDee (talk) 09:54, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

Cheers! Will definitely put these links into favorites!
Aximillio (talk) 10:04, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

This will definitely make it easier to track new images! Ctrl+F+2013 and all images from 2013 show up =)
Aximillio (talk) 12:54, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

Phew, I think we're done with the current stock.

@Aximillio

Great idea. That's probably the best way to find new uploads.

Thanks for putting up the other Metaqualities! At first, I planned to upload them all; next, I decided to only select the different ones; then I regretted skipping them and finally planned to go back for them. I'm glad you saved me the effort and snagged the rest.

@Jemann

Please delete "posterheader" as it's the exact same image as "postcardlodgings".

Is it possible to separate the Photo gallery into different sections? Like "Current Photos", "Old & Unused" and "Postcards, Posters, & More"?

@Everyone

Are the images "map1" to "map13" the old Travel map for FL? They were uploaded in 2010. They're interesting in their own right. Map13 cracks me up; I suppose that's the older screen for A State of Some Confusion.

I'm fond of the sketchy art style used in some of the postcards. The "gazette" is hilarious. The 1891 "fallenlondon" map grants a much better grasp of where everything is located. I'm worried about the area Bittermonkey Reach. I'm sure my Heart's Desire alt will be dealt a harsh fate for annoying the Cardsharp Monkey. She never took that expensive honey option to mollify the monkey, so she's still "inciting a simian revenge". Ah, whatever, she deserves it.
ZDee (talk) 14:03, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

"The 1891 "fallenlondon" map grants a much better grasp of where everything is located."

Is this the current map?
Aximillio (talk) 14:22, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

Unsure. It was added on January 19th of 2011. The developers might be working with a different map, but this one seems to be mostly accurate already. Childcake Street is in Spite, Tyrant's Gardens is in Veilgarden, Bugsby's Marshes is next to the Obseravatory, and so on.

The size of the well in Big King Square is surprisingly large... I'm afraid Mr Eaten will emerge from it, heh.
ZDee (talk) 14:35, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

My only regret with that picture is that the Unterzee and other places don't have similar maps!

It's uploaded to Mr Arendt's DeviantArt as well. (http://misterarendt.deviantart.com/art/Map-of-Fallen-London-280502640)
Aximillio (talk) 14:46, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

Agreed. In particlar, I'd enjoy maps of Parabola, Xibalba and the Elder Continent. If the Elder Continent is as big and intriguing as it's hyped to be, it might get its own Travel screen like London.

Thanks for linking to Mr. Arendt's deviantart account. I didn't know he had one.
ZDee (talk) 15:23, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

Jemann, please also delete "Reveur" and "Reveursmall". They're probably sidebar promotional pics for The Night Circus. I've double checked and I think those two are the last of the unrelated FL images we should remove.

The next time you two go to zee and access Across the Southern Archipelago, please check if the photos for options Bullbone Island and Corpsecage Island and their "You have moved to So-and-So" pages are correct. The same goes for Across the Sea of Voices and its option Grunting Fen.
ZDee (talk) 10:49, April 4, 2013 (UTC)

relinking "Choose a Knife-and-Candle target"

I've ran into this issue before... If you place a link within a page with the exact same name, it'll appear as plain text. For this instance, you tried to link [Choose a Knife-and-Candle target] to the page itself; the page's name is also "Choose a Knife-and-Candle target". One way to fix this is by making a new page named "Choose a Knife-and-Candle target 1" and linking to that instead. You could also make a disambiguation page, but doing the former is easier and better.

If you're wondering why the redirect link in "Arson and Avarice" (another option from the penance card) works without the need for a numbered name, that's because the other page is named "Arson and avarice". It isn't exactly the same ("A" in avarice versus "a" in avarice), so wikia.com acknowledges it as a different page. It's silly that way, but it works.
ZDee (talk) 16:16, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

I think I'll have to review this next time I draw the card - I might need to add a new card, or I was too stressed with trying out K & C. Thanks none-the-less.
Aximillio (talk) 16:29, April 2, 2013 (UTC)

"Do we link impossible!, btw?"

I forgot we even had an Impossible! category page, haha. I say yes.

I think readers sometimes don't see the tiny Categories links on the bottom of a page. On the other hand, the bold Unlock links are conspicuous and always useful.
ZDee (talk) 10:29, April 5, 2013 (UTC)

"Spend ten Iron Knie tokens to obtain a Bronze Skull Token"

I renamed it to "Knife", but I didn't visit Watchmaker's Hill to check... I'm still stuck in the Empress' Court penning plays and novels. In any case, the "Knie" page redirects to the "Knife" page.

EDIT: Son of a...NOW I notice your comment further down in Wiki Activity "Typo in game as well." :-/ I hope FL fixes their typo fast so I can look less silly.
ZDee (talk) 10:53, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

I hope FL fixes their typo fast so I can look less silly.

I completely agree =)
Aximillio (talk) 10:59, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

"She suspects you of cheating, but doesn't say anything as she hands over the bottle of absinthe."

The carny KNOWS. She hopes you choke on your ill-gained poison. :P

I'm glad you got the rare success so quickly! I was worried someone would have to waste 200 actions and a cartload of tickets to get it.
ZDee (talk) 22:15, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

On Copyright and Stuff

As mentioned in the Fan Project Guidelines, there are some notices about copyright, I quote:

"What it means for wikis

We do not give permission to quote our content in large chunks, in a wiki or elsewhere. Reproduction of Failbetter-copyrighted content – in wikis or elsewhere – must be limited to illustrative or particularly important quotes, and summaries or synopses of storylines. Cataloguing outcomes is fine. Copying and pasting most of the game is not."

What is the difference between 'quoting large chunks' and cataloguing outcomes, however? i find outcomes on their own are quite big!

Also, does this mean we can only record effects such as wikidot does? Wouldn't that be completely useless?
Aximillio (talk) 14:36, April 16, 2013 (UTC)

I did notice EB@wikidot's shift of editing style last year. They used to fully archive content like the wiki here. Now they record the titles and descriptions of cards and storylets exactly, but they don't record the entire result text; they leave out the success/rare success/failure flavor text but keep the rewards (gain/loss of items and such). It's not completely useless that way, but you could say it's a 50% drop in efficiency since half the text was removed.

No matter how you slice it, EB@wikidot and FL@wikia are dodging the rules. To be clear here, we're only able to dodge because Alexis allows us to dodge. He knows we exist. He knows what we do. He peeks through our windows in the dead of night...! This is the man who referred to the wikis point blank in the sunlight storylet of the Feast of the Exceptional Rose:

At the corner of your vision, a Radical Factotum hisses, whips out a notebook, and desperately scribbles notes. He catches your eye. "For the Wicked Book," he offers. "Where we share knowledge."

We're radical anarchists. :P

I'm sure Alexis is aware that his writing one polite letter asking us to cease & desist would stop us dead in our tracks. Why are we not lying like roadside vermin right now? He hasn't run us over, that's why. He swerves his copyright-fueled vehicle around us. Okay, I'll stop here; I can't keep writing this with a straight face.

Why did you have to go and ask, haha? This is a taboo question. Jeez, now we'll have to burn/edit out this conversation within 24 hours. You make for a lousy anarchist, dude. ;)

Anyhow, many of the players consider the wikis great resources. They don't take money away from FBG; they don't record fate-locked content. Yes, we do record descriptions of fate-locked items but you can view those on lots of mantelpieces; they're interesting teasers which might lead a player to buying fate-locked content if anything.

I'll relate a personal experience: At one point, part of the fate-locked Soul Trade storyline was posted on EB@wikidot. I read it and that clinched my decision to buy the story. I was wavering on whether to buy or not, and reading part of it convinced me that I would enjoy it. On the other hand, if I had read more of the Rubbery Murders and Long-Lost Daughter stories, I wouldn't have bought them. Not for 25 Fate, anyway. I think they're each worth 5-10 Fate with the current story. I hope FBG writes more content for them!
ZDee (talk) 20:03, April 16, 2013 (UTC)

NOW I see why you brought this up: https://community.failbettergames.com/t/find-the-rest-of-the-story-at/10478

Hmmm... That would leave the wiki with summaries, challenge information and guides. Cripes, I better go and save the stories that I want to reread to my hard drive.

I am left with one question: How many people are simply reading the wikis instead of playing the game?? You lose most of the fun if you don't play it... I'm baffled.
ZDee (talk) 21:09, April 16, 2013 (UTC)

I don't think many people are reading the wiki instead of playing the game. Personally I find the wiki enhances the game, since it means I can spend time on less important choices (such as item conversions) without paying full attention. They make a much greater impression when I have the time to actually read it.

Reading a story and making it your own isn't the same thing - for the larger stories like Playing with Broken Toys, for instance.

The reason I want to bring it up is because I don't want to contribute to a wiki if it's going to get pulled down the other day. I'm getting mixed signals and this worries me.
Aximillio (talk) 21:40, April 16, 2013 (UTC)

I share your thoughts, especially the one about making a story "your own". Even if I read a story here first, that doesn't stop me from playing it through FL; it gives me anticipation! I just get impatient sometimes. I also like to read the rare successes ("long shot" luck results), failures and text for alternate paths.

You can't walk every road of FL with one character. If you want to read most of the game's text, you have to either go through the wikis or play the game differently with several characters. I've forgotten most of the stories, I can't replay most of the storylets, and my journal is a hazard zone choked with chaos. I need the wikis, waaah! >_<

I mean, it's not like FL is a novel I can flip through whenever I want to read a certain portion. Heck, if I gave them $5, would FBG let me reread storylines and storylets I've done? With a helpful table of contents/index? Ohhh...maybe that's FBG's aim. :X
ZDee (talk) 21:59, April 16, 2013 (UTC)

Another thing: New content which wasn't there while you played early areas.
Aximillio (talk) 22:02, April 16, 2013 (UTC)

Exactly! Our characters are "too good" to play early content. To be fair, the developers did notice and they've alleviated that issue. The unlock range for cards and storylets has widened. Some have no attribute cap to lock players out (Pickpocket's Promenade). When they introduced the Cobblestone Rogues and Back-Alley Saints storylines (Pianist & Spirifer, Last Constable & Cheery Man), they gave advanced players an option at their Lodgings to access them with 10 Intriguing (or is it Incendiary?) Gossip.

I'm really enjoying replaying the early content with my newest alt. I'm spotting so much foreshadowing, clues and answers that are hidden in plain sight! I can only fully appreciate the early text in hindsight. When I started the game last year, all these interesting things were happening to my character, but I had no idea of their importance till now...rereading/playing everything several months later.
ZDee (talk) 22:34, April 16, 2013 (UTC)

A radical step would be to alter the templates to truncate descriptions. The copy & pasted text would still be there, but cut off at some reasonable character limit (with suitable scripting). I could also add 'summarised' entries, to allow a more intelligently truncated version to be used instead.

It's not something I particularly want to do, but Alexis is pretty unambiguous on that thread.
Jemann (talk) 00:03, April 17, 2013 (UTC)

All right... Truncated descriptions and full "rewards/effects". Acceptable, yes? Not gonna get hammered, no? Double negatives in that last sentence, yes...

I suppose the individual item pages are okay. They're merely short descriptions.

The category pages of Qualities (Accomplishments, Quirks, etc.) should also be fine since they contain short descriptions, and their level/progress links don't give much away.

It looks like every storylet, card and action page will need this little guy at the bottom:

Find the rest of the story at: [ http://www.fallenlondon.com ]
ZDee (talk) 01:43, April 17, 2013 (UTC)

Some samples of truncation are in the Sandbox. As with the calculators, it may not work in your browser immediately. It briefly shows the full text before 'blinking' to the shorter version, and anyone could find the regular text by looking at the page history anyway, but I think it's a Good Enough (tm) solution.

The 200 or 250 character versions look about right to me.
Jemann (talk) 05:28, April 17, 2013 (UTC)

If we have to truncate them, I'd go for 250 chars as well. I guess that's partially because I don't really want to truncate them at all...

And yeah, like ZDee says, it seems like we'll have to include the rest of the story. Personally I think that should obvious to anyone visiting the wiki, but you never know?
Aximillio (talk) 14:38, April 17, 2013 (UTC)

500! Er, I mean, 250 is a decent length.

I've settled on writing the hyperlink notice like this:

[Find the rest of the story at http://www.fallenlondon.com]

The sentence is in brackets so people will know it's not part of the original text. It's also pretty faithful to the original.

@Aximillio



* nod* There's a handful of people who'll randomly find FL snippets through a search engine, read the page in full, and be intrigued enough to visit the homepage to start the game.

From a business standpoint, one new consumer is valuable, and not merely from their single contribution. One consumer is a potential lead to dozens of other new consumers if that first consumer recommends it successfully to their acquaintances and then those acquaintances recommend it in turn. FL is already doing this through Facebook and Twitter, and now they're strongly hinting that they want their homepage mentioned in other places, too.

I believe only a minority of new players will reach FL this way, but you never know about those people... One of them might be a gaming magazine editor or someone else in a position of pull; if they give FL a try and a good review, it'll bring in many more players.

The wikis are the best websites for previewing FL's content. There's a possibility potential players will read through portions of the game on the wikis first before their decision to register an account. Making FL's homepage more prominent here doesn't hurt us any, and it might help FBG. Admittedly, most of it is sheer chance.

In summary: I was initially super annoyed by the copy-forced hyperlink, but I've mostly gotten over it. I have no qualms about including it on relevant story pages here, but I wish it would go away from the game's script.
ZDee (talk) 16:37, April 17, 2013 (UTC)

Hmm, trickier than I thought. I was doing truncation by wrapping the text in a <span> with a particular style. This works fine on single paragraphs, but for more than one wikia automatically creates <p> tags and breaks out of the <span>, meaning only the first paragraph gets truncated. I'll have to keep messing about to find a working solution.
Jemann (talk) 00:37, April 18, 2013 (UTC)

I've peeked at the Sandbox code. I see how you did it. If worse comes to worst, we could manually add the truncate code? As horribly slow-going as that would be, we could do it.

The original Sandbox experiments looked fine, but the current pages look odd:

Save the Rubbery Man

Kidnap

A miniature scrolling window?

Attempt to survive the duels unscathed

The success text is completely invisible. The text is under 250 characters so I thought it would be left alone, but that's obviously not the case.

I'm glad I do not have your job. :-|

EDIT: Most of the pages are okay. It's just those two wonky examples I listed.

EDIT2: Added a third twitchy link.
ZDee (talk) 00:57, April 18, 2013 (UTC)

I was making numerous edits to the Action template, checking results against pages as I went. Those pages are ones I checked; I think the wiki has decided to cache those broken versions for the entertainment of all. If they don't resolve within a day or two, making small edits should fix the problem.
Jemann (talk) 01:11, April 18, 2013 (UTC)

A hearty har har was had by the wiki today.

I'll keep those pages open and check on them tomorrow to see if they clean up their act.
ZDee (talk) 01:25, April 18, 2013 (UTC)

So I've now included a better version of the truncation in the Failure template. It only reliably takes effect when a page is edited. Let me know if you see anything wonky; otherwise I'll add it to other templates soon (Action, Autofire, Rare Success).
Jemann (talk) 01:07, April 23, 2013 (UTC)

I've looked at the recently edited pages and a few dozen random pages which contain Failures. They were fully functioning. You don't see the truncation when you click "Preview" on a page's edit screen, hooray! Go ahead and press the big red button to release truncation bombs on the rest of the templates.
ZDee (talk) 01:28, April 23, 2013 (UTC)

Awesome!
Aximillio (talk) 11:38, April 23, 2013 (UTC)

Connected: the Masters of the Bazaar Gain

View a candleflame through the lens

Nice! Did you personally get the rare success? If so, how many actions did you use?

Do you think it'd be faster to raise Masters connections through the Nephrite Lens rare success than pleasing Mr Pages with fancy books and trading 2500 Romantic Notions at the Temple Club?
ZDee (talk) 20:29, April 16, 2013 (UTC)

Yep, I got it personally (Well, on an alt, anyway). I used ~10 actions or so, but you know my luck =P Am trying to redo the success...
Aximillio (talk) 21:25, April 16, 2013 (UTC)

Trickster of carnies! Keeper of lucky weasels! :P

Dang, that's sweet... I gave up at 30 actions, but I only stopped because I had to pursue PoSI status. I'll make eyeballing the Nephrite Lens a side project once I complete other major storylines (acquiring a ship and exploring the Unterzee).
ZDee (talk) 21:33, April 16, 2013 (UTC)

Btw, you know of a good way to kill a Giggling Mandrake? It's really bothering me, since it means I can't get other exotica on my main. I wonder if Set it to fighting! has a chance of killing it?

If so, I might be travelling to Zee soon (preferably when I'm low on tokens) to get some deshrieked ones to experiment with.

Also, do you think Play with the thing has a rare success?
Aximillio (talk) 21:49, April 16, 2013 (UTC)

Rare books is 125 E/CP, assuming it's 3 cps. Proscribed material is 133.33E/CP. So assuming there's a 1% chance of a rare success, in addition to the secrets you'll get, that's comparatively good. 2500 rom. not. is 250E for 1(?) CP and thus not worth it. If it's 2 CP, however, that's pretty equal to Rare books, except they're probably easier to get in Polythreme.





Edit: Just so it's said, I've spent another ~10 actions on this without any rare successes, so I was probably pretty lucky.
Aximillio (talk) 21:56, April 16, 2013 (UTC)

You must feed your blood to the giggling monstrosity with Magnanimous 12. I don't even know how to get to 12... Iron Republic Days, maybe? Zeedee is at 16, so he doesn't have to worry much; he got his Magnanimous count high mostly from fate-locked content, though.

It's possible that all the Exotica items have rare successes for the hard luck options, but you'd probably have to spend an enormous amount of actions to check. :-/ On the other hand, you can easily gain new Exotica items. They're very common cards.

I was really hoping I could convince K&C members to steal the Giggling Mandrake from my non-Magnanimous characters but no such luck... The option is no longer visible and we have no certainty of Exotica Theft being used as a maneuver (at least for this season of K&C).

Thanks for the Echo comparisons! I'd rather try my hand at the Nephrite Lens RS. I believe the Romantic Notions option is indeed 1 CP.
ZDee (talk) 22:21, April 16, 2013 (UTC)

Doesn't a player need to spend hundreds of actions to attain the books and romantic notions?

You might also need several hundred actions to obtain a Nephrite Lens rare success, but there's a chance you could get it within dozens of actions... It's quite a gamble. It can also be incredibly boring. At least there's variation with gathering the rare books. I'd still rather try the lens first.
ZDee (talk) 22:44, April 16, 2013 (UTC)

For magnanimous, giving jewels/nursing people back to health also works.

As long as we don't know the percentage, we can't know which is better.
Aximillio (talk) 08:20, April 17, 2013 (UTC)

Second success after another ~40-50 actions? It definitely seems quite decent for me. perhaps we'll see whether it caps?
Aximillio (talk) 18:17, April 17, 2013 (UTC)

So the caps for giving jewels and nursing are 12-16? Higher?

"Quite decent", haha, yeah, that's one way to put it.

I think you should keep going till you uncover the Connected cap! That is, if there is a cap...
ZDee (talk) 18:32, April 17, 2013 (UTC)

Currently on lvl 4/3/3 on my main/alt/alt respectably, so I guess I have some way to go =P main also has a mandrake to get rid of...

I haven't found a cap for either of them, to be frank. I also used the shepherd option up to 16. 18 atm.
Aximillio (talk) 18:40, April 17, 2013 (UTC)

This needs testing! Once I'm done with all this PoSI fluff, I shall set up a little clinic on the official forum. Get us some guinea pigs... ;)
ZDee (talk) 18:53, April 17, 2013 (UTC)

* low groan*

View a candleflame through the lens

Did the developers read our conversation or something? :-[

At least we can get rid of the Giggling Mandrakes easily now. I'm sure they'll play nice with the rats under the floorboards.
ZDee (talk) 19:47, April 23, 2013 (UTC)

New Sidebar Icons

Are you serious?!! Bloody hell, man, I'm suffering convulsions right now just from the thought of updating all the related pages. *spasms out of chair*

Edit: Convulsions ceased. Icons like sidebarwoundssmall and sidebarsuspicionsmall won't actually be used in the Rewards/Effects/Outcomes (whatever that term is supposed to be) portion of the game, right?
ZDee (talk) 19:59, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

We'll see =/
Aximillio (talk) 20:07, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

Y'know, you don't have to fix them all right this second. Out-of-date icons just adds to the wiki's charm :)
Jemann (talk) 23:40, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

. . .Well, if that's how you're going to rationalize it! :P

I failed at a Dangerous challenge and the new Wounds icon appeared as an effect. Looks like they're here to stay.

Scandal now looks really out of place on the left sidebar, heh.

I'm going to complete the Gains/Loss cataloging of the remaining Connections today. Then we move onto the glorious Quirks!!

I pray I wake up tomorrow to discover that FBG changed their mind about the new FL icons and rolls everything back to the old ones.
ZDee (talk) 23:49, April 24, 2013 (UTC)

There are some image duplicates. For instance you have

/icons/unaccountablypeckish.png and /icons/peckish.png

Upload them anyway?





Also, there's no repectablesmall, yet.
Aximillio (talk) 12:47, April 25, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, we should upload the renamed icons and update the Quicklist with them. We should also use the newly named icons to avoid confusion with contributors who check the URL for reference when they edit a page. I've run into this issue a couple times myself; the new .png name isn't in our photo gallery or Quicklist, so I have to rifle through our huge gallery to find one itty bitty image which has the older name.

I don't know when, but placeholder5.png and placeholder5small.png have been changed to bazaar.png and bazaarsmall.png, so I'll upload the new bazaar png's.
ZDee (talk) 20:25, April 25, 2013 (UTC)

I've just put in a request to MediaWiki to add a MassEdit extension to the wiki; with that in place it should be easy to switch over all these thumbnails (what could possibly go wrgno?)
Jemann (talk) 23:54, April 25, 2013 (UTC)

Great! It seems like a wonderful solution to our mass editing woes.

"Wrgno", indeed! XD

== Bugs / Known Issues ==

* There was a security issue in r3 and earlier, which allowed users to run PHP code on the server with the /e modifier. This has been fixed in r4.
* Editing is very slow on 1.14 and earlier (the MediaWiki API takes 2-3 seconds to edit each page.) This seems to be fixed in 1.15.
* Depending on your webserver's PHP config, scripts may time out after 30 seconds or less. In this case you will need to check your contributions page to see which articles have been edited and remove those from the list before performing the edit again.
* A large number of edits can exhaust the amount of memory allocated to PHP. This is because the code loads all pages into memory before starting to edit them. This needs to be rewritten to only load pages one at a time.



...Say what now? I'll leave this to you, boss dude. (Has anyone noticed that when things go well, all the editors are contributors who share equal credit? But when things could/do go wrong, Jemann is suddenly the boss who has to take the blame and fix things? Hahaha.) I love you, man.
ZDee (talk) 00:27, April 26, 2013 (UTC)

[ ] Denotes Bold + Italics, right?

Yeah, but for an especially important message, I use italics or both bold & italics instead of the brackets. The brackets are more appealing visually, yet you really want to "scream" now and then to get the reader's attention. Best judgment and all that.

The K&C pages are a mix of talking politely and shaking someone violently while shouting in their face. I've decided to just ignore the inconsistency.

By the way, should I add Aximillion to my Boxed Cat "gift" list? Are you planning to go that far? And like Delmar has said, you really do need 4 cats; you lose the first 3 and keep the last. I read some spoilers to verify and it seems true.
ZDee (talk) 23:38, April 26, 2013 (UTC)

[ ] denotes an out-of-character aside, generally addressed directly to the player. I believe this is how the text is entered in StoryNexus, and how the game displayed it at one point, so it's stayed as the (unspoken) convention here. On some occasions bold and italics may be better (e.g. dire warnings in the Seeking storyline). Generally I prefer the square brackets but I'm not about to edit anyone's work.
Jemann (talk) 04:57, April 27, 2013 (UTC)

@Zdee, I'm not that far in the storyline yet - spending time at court atm, it might mean I won't send on cats, though...
Aximillio (talk) 10:48, April 27, 2013 (UTC)

Okay, shoot me a message later if you want any boxes which may or may not contain surly felines.
ZDee (talk) 15:50, April 27, 2013 (UTC)

(no title)

When new cameos are released, are we to overwrite old ones? The reason I'm asking is since users use the old images, which frankly aren't similar at all. See
Aximillio (talk) 19:10, April 30, 2013 (UTC)

Also, some cameos have the same names as icons. I've named these ...cameo.png and ...cameosml.png, but if FBG made an icon called the same as a cameo w/o cameo in title, new editors might not notice and replace them.
Aximillio (talk) 19:35, April 30, 2013 (UTC)

We should stick to the original file names for images as much as possible -- sensibly, of course. I like how you simply inserted the word "cameo" into the cameos' file names to avoid confusion with our more frequently used icons which happen to share the same names (urchin.png versus urchincameo.png).

"I've named these ...cameo.png and ...cameosml.png, but if FBG made an icon called the same as a cameo w/o cameo in title, new editors might not notice and replace them."

I think it's fine. We barely use cameos, and older versions of images are always saved to the wiki's internal archive. If it happens, we'll just reupload the concerned cameo with new names of "[something]cameo.png" and "[something]cameosml.png". If you'd like, you could add a short section about the naming system to Editing Guidelines.

I see what you mean by Dorian.png and its potential use by other editors, specifically Vae Victis. His solution:

1) go to File:Dorian.png

2) download and save the thumbnail or full size image of the older Dorian.png to his PC (clicking on the thumbnail leads to the full image)

3) upload his picture of choice to the Photos gallery with the name "VaeVictis.png"

4) add "VaeVictis.png" to his wiki profile

5) celebrate his success the FL way by roasting a sack of rats



Some users/editors have uploaded their personal photos to our gallery and used them in their profiles. No big deal. :)
ZDee (talk) 22:21, April 30, 2013 (UTC)

Kay, I'll see about the editing guidelines =)

...except, I cannot edit them...
Aximillio (talk) 09:34, May 1, 2013 (UTC)

Like the front page, it seems to be restricted to administrators. Normally, I would suggest you add an explanatory Comment...but Jesus on a pogo stick, it's a mess there. You're probably better off not bothering.

Plan A & B are busted. You could jump to C and pester Jemann directly. Don your best pair of scandalous stockings. Flutter your eyelashes. Flick his wrist a little.
ZDee (talk) 10:03, May 1, 2013 (UTC)

"How you write dates in different countries is seriously an art..."

Erm, yes, I forgot that many countries consider the first number a day and not a month like a savage American might. XD I should have just said June 1st.

. . .Psst, I suspect this could be the gateway to Hell:

File:Nadirgate.png

Remember what the Salty Fabulist said about there being an entrance under the black oily waves? It could be located in an underground cavern (I mean, lower than usual) below zee level that's reached by a tunnel. The tunnel would be paved with a railroad track leading from Moloch Street Station.

I only think it's the door to Hell because of the file name. "Nadir" is the diametric opposite of the zenith of a celestial sphere in astronomy. It's also a good way of saying "abyss" or "lowest point" literally and figuratively. The astronomy part is slightly worrying since that implies an area outside of the planet Earth. That's no easy trip, but I'm sure a magical portal bathed in royal purple light will make matters bearable. :p And what's with the rainbow in the carved image above the arch? Is that Hell's way of greeting its visitors? Kinda like a "Welcome! It'll only be rainbows and butterflies once you enter!" sign?

I am all a-tingle!
ZDee (talk) 11:49, May 4, 2013 (UTC)

That's actually quite possible... It certainly looks the part... I wonder how we'll get there? (I hope you don't need any hell connections =P)
Aximillio (talk) 11:55, May 4, 2013 (UTC)

LMAO, oh my gosh, that would suck for you!!

There are all sorts of reasons to storm the gates of the Abyss. I'm sure the Bishop of Southwark could tell us a thousand. Those with the Hellfarer quality might find the path easier than others. I suppose Mr Pages could also send us down there as a Reliable investigator to snoop around the place and collect love stories. For all we know, the Crimson Book could be buried there.

I'll be pissed if it turns out we'll need a Zubmarine to reach the fancy front door. I seriously hope the Salty Fabulist isn't being too literal with his "under the black oily waves" rant; it could mean an underwater dive. In that case, the Masters had better lift their 1-ship restriction. I'm not getting Zee Dee a zub (as his sole ship). It's cramped, hot and all too close to active Correspondence sigils.
ZDee (talk) 12:07, May 4, 2013 (UTC)

It occurs to me that we could simply board a train at Moloch Street Station!

My Mysterious Benefactor was the Ragged Mendicant. His storyline has led me to believe that the devils can't stop you if you willingly board the train. If anything, it terrifies them. Perhaps those who enter willingly can also depart willingly... Remember the army sent by the Bishop to engage Hell in war decades ago? They're different from the mendicant. The soldiers used violence to force their way and they were probably reluctant to venture forth. The mendicant only carried the modest (and extremely stinky) clothes he wore, a bag of notebooks and his soul. His goal was not to conquer but to learn.

Maybe the option to seat yourself on the train will require Austere 12, Magnanimous 12 and Daring 12 along with 0 x Your very own Infernal Contract.
ZDee (talk) 13:05, May 4, 2013 (UTC)

Daring 11, Austere 12, Magnanimous 12, got a soul and zub, and hellfarer 34, so I guess I'm not that bad off, then =P
Aximillio (talk) 13:59, May 4, 2013 (UTC)

Wh-what have you been doing?? Trading hundreds of Deals with the Devil for Brass Rings? Saving up those Brass Rings for a special occasion? Anniversary present for your spouse, maybe? ...Or, oh, a consequence of binding yourself to the Bishop's plans?
ZDee (talk) 15:33, May 4, 2013 (UTC)

Bishop, do you think my rubbery consort would appreciate a brass ring for every finger? Remind it of amber? I think that would just be evil - pulsating ambers would be much better.
Aximillio (talk) 16:45, May 5, 2013 (UTC)

Haha, a ring to adorn every suction cup?

"[Contact Name] Loss" is for losing the quality =P"

Damn, I'm more tired than I thought! Thanks for catching and correcting that! I read my blog post 5 times and it seemed fine, but that was merely my drowsy mind playing tricks on me. x_x
ZDee (talk) 17:19, May 5, 2013 (UTC)

From one iron-fisted tyrant to another...

...When you're done updating all the Pet stats and their individual pages, would you please post a blog entry about it? I don't like the sight of my blog entries being the only ones on the front page's News Feed. I look like a flipping egomaniac and I want it to stop. Thanks.
ZDee (talk) 13:17, May 9, 2013 (UTC)

PoSI gold cards

How do I erase them from my deck?

Specifically, if I'm already a member of a Club, will I still draw the counterpart card club? Ex: I'm in the Parthenaeum, so is the Young Stags starter gold card with Chuffy drawable or not?

If I already have a Spouse, do the Celebrated Artist Model and Master Jewel Thief "rekindling romance" gold cards appear?
ZDee (talk) 16:56, May 10, 2013 (UTC)

Yep. For the club part you're good, since you can begin the opening storylet even with a club I think. For spouses you'll want to draw them all, regardless on whether you want them as a spouse or not.
Aximillio (talk) 17:16, May 10, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice. I thought as much...but I was hoping otherwise. I've started all the PoSI gold storylets just to remove them from my deck. The respective qualities clutter up the Story section of my Qualities, unfortunately. I suppose some of them will be perpetually be marked at 1.
ZDee (talk) 17:29, May 10, 2013 (UTC)

"Something seems to untemplify things, any idea what it can be? I had some of these as well."

https://fallenlondon.wiki/wiki/Ask_the_Cheery_Man_about_the_feud?action=history

What the heck happened? I only added the category "Living Stories" on the action page, and now I see in History that the page went nuts. I didn't do anything out of the ordinary. Maybe wikia.com is temporarily acting up?
ZDee (talk) 16:56, May 16, 2013 (UTC)

I did the same on A furious and incoherent drunken rat, apparently
Aximillio (talk) 16:58, May 16, 2013 (UTC)

Argh, how annoying! We'll have to double check Published pages after we edit them. This had better resolve itself soon.

I see you've added some new photos. Neat! I wonder why the pink gloves, which resemble a pair of detached hands, are named "lenguals". What are "lenguals"??
ZDee (talk) 17:06, May 16, 2013 (UTC)

No clue. Languals? You think it's new content for the Bazaar? (Say Yes)
Aximillio (talk) 17:08, May 16, 2013 (UTC)

It could be a verbal portmanteau. Of what, though? I don't know. My google fu is failing me, too. Er, maybe it's "languid hauls?" Okay, that was bad. I seriously have no idea.

I'm definitely thinking new Bazaar items. We might get them within the next few hours or even the next few months... Alexis did say there would be more either way.
ZDee (talk) 17:14, May 16, 2013 (UTC)

Well, I've got 6.3k Echoes to spend for Overgoats or similar, so I guess we'll see...
Aximillio (talk) 17:19, May 16, 2013 (UTC)

Cripes, look at this:

http://fallenlondon.wiki/w/index.php?title=Potentially_compelling&diff=48580&oldid=48576

Let me guess... You added categories with the shortcut of doing it on the action page itself rather than the Edit screen? If that's what's breaking our pages, we'll have to remember to refresh the page twice to check for abnormalities after we use the category shortcut.

Completely unrelated, but I'm excited for that upcoming Parabola Suit.
ZDee (talk) 20:08, May 18, 2013 (UTC)

Yep, I expect that's what I did: For the future I should always edit.

Don't forget it might come from other sources than the bazaar or not be an item whatsoever. Only thing we got is the image, but I expect it would be a whiteshirt.png if it just was a generic one, so likely an item.
Aximillio (talk) 23:27, May 18, 2013 (UTC)

"What's this?"

http://fallenlondon.wiki/wiki/An_abandoned_place#comm-17304

It's a dead-end page. The text is from the success result of an Ambition: Heart's Desire! storylet:

Visit that address in the Forgotten Quarter

I'm deleting it in a moment.
ZDee (talk) 20:41, May 17, 2013 (UTC)

Donate to the Cause

When I chose this, my Connected:Revolutionaries rose from nothing to 11. How many, er, "change points"(is that what CP is?) does it make?
DrinkKryptonite (talk) 17:46, May 18, 2013 (UTC)

66 CP

Yep, the acronym stands for "Change Points". It's Fallen London's way of saying "Experience Points", the classic RPG standard. Anyway, the number could be higher if the CP's fall between level 11 and 12. I think it's safer to write it as "~66 CP" (without quotes) so readers know it's an estimate.
ZDee (talk) 19:03, May 18, 2013 (UTC)

11*(11/2+0.5) = 11*6 = 66 CP

Max is 12*(12/2+0.5) - 1 = 12*6.5 = 77CP





~70-75 CP sounds likely.
Aximillio (talk) 23:25, May 18, 2013 (UTC)

Ambition: Light Fingers!

"List done. I can do more when I have the time, if you want."

Yes, please. Thank you. I don't care who does it as long as it gets done. I feel extra guilt towards the LF category page. It's been largely ignored. Jemann filled in a lot of the blanks for the storyline a few months ago. So have you, especially with the later parts.

Last year, half the pages weren't even there, so we've obviously made improvement. I just don't know why LF gets less attention than the other ambitions. It's like a groaning ghost rattling its chains in our house. Jeez, I wish it would shut up. :P
ZDee (talk) 11:02, May 22, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, it's kind of ironic. I guess I should begin to record more...
Aximillio (talk) 12:36, May 22, 2013 (UTC)

Yay! You're almost finished constructing the Progress list!

Ho, it only took the wiki 2 years... =D
ZDee (talk) 01:50, May 25, 2013 (UTC)

Can't finish the parts I haven't got recorded in reminiscing =P (That's an awesome tool, btw).

Is it any point to mention progress qualities in the orphanage and such?
Aximillio (talk) 11:11, May 25, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, a handy tool. I've noticed that our failures don't get recorded into Reminiscing. I'm not sure if opportunity cards are recorded. Probably not?

Don't bother with the Orphanage progress qualities. (Aren't they subcategories? Oh, they're not? Okay, hold on, I'll tag them appropriately.) The listed storylets alone are already quite helpful.
ZDee (talk) 22:44, May 25, 2013 (UTC)

Jack

I've deleted a few articles on the (likely fate-locked side of the) Jack-case. At the point of creation they weren't fate, I think, but as they seem to be now I've just deleted them...

I've also changed Tell the Inspector, as it linked to the storylets.
Aximillio (talk) 22:30, May 23, 2013 (UTC)

Okay. I haven't done that story yet. When I do, I'll check again that the storylets connect properly.
ZDee (talk) 23:25, May 23, 2013 (UTC)

Ventures need "Locked with" option

Hi,

I'm starting the A lady to remember venture now and the Artist's venture option immediately disappeared. It seems that it locks with Seduction: a Rising Artist's Model 1 (though it's not mentioned anywhere in the game). The opposite is probably true as well - the Model seduction is probably locked when you have Seduction: a Rising Artist 1.

I can't edit the venture template so I hoped you could do it :)
Vae Victis (talk) 14:07, May 28, 2013 (UTC)

Added one for |Locked with =
Aximillio (talk) 14:14, May 28, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks!
Vae Victis (talk) 14:16, May 28, 2013 (UTC)

I'll probably be switching |unlock to |Unlocked with soon, for consistency.
Aximillio (talk) 14:16, May 28, 2013 (UTC)

Think that should fix it, tell me if it doesn't =)
Aximillio (talk) 14:26, May 28, 2013 (UTC)

It's wonderful. Thanks again.
Vae Victis (talk) 14:30, May 28, 2013 (UTC)

Template:Fate has received |Locked with as well =)
Aximillio (talk) 09:35, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

Vae Victis wrote:

Hi,
I'm starting the A lady to remember venture now and the Artist's venture option immediately disappeared. It seems that it locks with Seduction: a Rising Artist's Model 1 (though it's not mentioned anywhere in the game). The opposite is probably true as well - the Model seduction is probably locked when you have Seduction: a Rising Artist 1.

Yes, you're right. You can't seduce them simultaneously. Since you're meeting both of them at the Shuttered Palace these days, it'd be a tad...conspicuous...to try.
ZDee (talk) 09:57, May 29, 2013 (UTC)

Testing social actions

A troubled conversation about dusty stones

Before accepting, count how many Extraordinary Implications you own. After accepting, did the number increase by 1?

My Messages are bugged, but in a different way this time: I can't see the effects text, only the narrative text.

(Note to self: I currently have 18 Extraordinary Implications.)
ZDee (talk) 02:06, May 30, 2013 (UTC)

Same here (31 imp. atm.)
Aximillio (talk) 08:13, May 30, 2013 (UTC)

You mean you accepted and nothing happened? :(
ZDee (talk) 08:41, May 30, 2013 (UTC)

No, I have yet to visit the alt you sent it to, I think...
Aximillio (talk) 09:51, May 30, 2013 (UTC)

But I sent it to you... O_o

I thought it weird that there was no pending invitation to you in my Messages.

I had to choose a Friend before I faced the luck challenge. (I was able to select you, so I presumed it went through.) I was unlucky, so I guess the invitation -- investigation, really -- only gets sent when you pass the luck challenge?

I'll test this again when I redraw the card.
ZDee (talk) 10:44, May 30, 2013 (UTC)

One of my alts just drew the card. I picked you again, but I failed the luck challenge again... Tell me if you get an invitation, message or anything.

P.S.

All the Contacts/Connections and Quirks have been recataloged -- or so I think. I might have missed something, but I dread having to recheck. Let's say it's done.
ZDee (talk) 11:02, May 30, 2013 (UTC)

Ah, yes, I've actually tested that weird thing before. Only a success will give me a message.

Thanks for the quirk/Contacts work =) I'll mark it as done =)
Aximillio (talk) 12:25, May 30, 2013 (UTC)

Phooey, no easy Extraordinary Implications for us... I'll leave a note on the wiki page about it.
ZDee (talk) 12:43, May 30, 2013 (UTC)

Changing the Action template

I saw that you're changing things with the action template. Specifically, you've added auto-link to qualities in the new calculator section. This may cause problems with all the action that already have been moved to the new difficulty system (I'm currently, slowly, trying to move all the actions there) and I think it would be better to revert it back to when it wasn't auto-linking.
Vae Victis (talk) 23:01, July 7, 2013 (UTC)

ok
Aximillio (talk) 23:02, July 7, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks!
Vae Victis (talk) 23:04, July 7, 2013 (UTC)

D'you think you could put BroadDiff and BroadQuality where Challenge Information was previously? It makes source look a little tidier. Also, I don't think we need a separate one for Challenge Information anymore.
Aximillio (talk) 23:18, July 7, 2013 (UTC)

We do need for it for special challenges (like Investigating, Dueling, etc.) and for double challenges where two qualities are tested.

What do you mean by putting "BroadDiff and BroadQuality where Challenge Information was previously"?
Vae Victis (talk) 23:29, July 7, 2013 (UTC)

Not putting them in the end of the template, but under Unlock/Lock.

Ah, yes, forgot about those.
Aximillio (talk) 23:32, July 7, 2013 (UTC)

Alright.

Edit: I edit the difficulty in visual mode and didn't know it adds the code at the end of the template is source mode.
Vae Victis (talk) 23:33, July 7, 2013 (UTC)

NarrowDifficulty doesn't work and, for some reason, breaks the Broad Difficulty calculator, preventing the action from displaying any difficulty at all. Even the the old Challenge Information.

Perhaps you have a problem with the "If"s?

Edit: It now works.
Vae Victis (talk) 00:00, July 8, 2013 (UTC)

A separator ( '|' ) got edited out at some point. Should work now?

I'm not sure that Narrow Difficulty should be included in Action - it seems likely that you'll want to edit the results (e.g. cutting off the bottom end, as in It takes a chief). Maybe there should be a matching Narrow difficulty page with a challenge list generator?
Jemann (talk) 00:33, July 8, 2013 (UTC)

guys, while i appreciate and applaud your collective efforts to lighten the editor workload by putting all these nifty features into our most popular Action template, i worry that only a handful of people know how to use them. their purposes aren't obvious when you read their field names. of course, someone will eventually explain them in 'editing guidelines', 'templates' and/or somewhere else.

been pondering this for a while: we should make an editing tutorial with screenshots. i've never used a screenshot program before, so i'm just bringing the idea upfront for contemplation.
ZDee (talk) 04:06, July 8, 2013 (UTC)

Jemann: "I'm not sure that Narrow Difficulty should be included in Action"

I agree with you completely. Take the Black Ribbon duels for example: Half of those start at the 70% mark, while the other half at 30%. With Broad difficulty we don't have that problem, though many cards don't allow to go over ~85% because of maximum ability restrictions. Nevertheless, the majority of the Broad difficulty calculator results are always relevant.

ZDee: "i worry that only a handful of people know how to use them"

Truth be told, only a handful of people update the wiki anyway. Usually when someone new comes along they just leave their discoveries in the comments and we add those in. The new fields may be confusing, but people can still write whatever in the "Challenge Information". That may be enough.

"we should make an editing tutorial with screenshots"

Good idea. I guess I could learn how to make a video, but I can't voice it at all. Nobody will understand my thick accent.

Speaking of tutorials, could any of you add a short explanation to the new fields in the action template to the Editing Guidelines page, as well as update the scaler there (it's no longer "between 0.7 and 0.6")?
Vae Victis (talk) 04:39, July 8, 2013 (UTC)

"Take the Black Ribbon duels for example: Half of those start at the 70% mark, while the other half at 30%."

hrm, yeah, the narrow challenges are better off with us manually coding them as befits their particular situations.

"Truth be told, only a handful of people update the wiki anyway."

that number's been growing over the past half year; 15-23 registered editors update an article or photo every month. (it's also higher by 3-8 when you include the anonymous editors.) 8-11 registered editors edit articles at least 5 times per month. of those, 2-7 edit at least 100 times.

in 2012, this wiki averaged 739 edits per month. in the past 6 months of 2013, the monthly average has risen to 2,750 edits from our combined might! *roar* :)

this is a good year to recruit more staff. well, it's always a good time but this year feels especially full of hope! there isn't a lack of willing so much as a lack of 'okay now that i'm in the editing screen wtf do i do? where do i put my eyes?!' knowledge. augmenting our 'editing guidelines' with a screenshot tutorial should be a significant aid to intrigued volunteers.

videos would be splendid! voiceovers aren't necessary; some people don't even use audio on their pc's. simple written instructions accompanied by short clips for maneuvering the editing screen or wiki would help: how to use the broad calculators, create disambiguation pages, make redirects, change a storylet or card template to display more options, construct a table, update the google spreadsheet, etc.

gosh i miss my old keyboard. the onscreen one requires an hour to type anything of decent length.
ZDee (talk) 06:48, July 8, 2013 (UTC)

Ah, yes, I forgot a lot of narrow challenges don't use all levels. Possibly it might be better to use a calculator akin to the broad calculator instead? Then you can choose what to include yourself, while the calculator does most of the typing.
Aximillio (talk) 18:55, July 13, 2013 (UTC)

Yep, that would be pretty neat. We'd save a lot of time in the long run (thinking of the 8-12 line challenges).
ZDee (talk) 22:48, July 13, 2013 (UTC)

Narrow difficulty is now up.
Aximillio (talk) 10:10, July 14, 2013 (UTC)

Wonderful!
Vae Victis (talk) 11:26, July 14, 2013 (UTC)

"Shall I add a bit on Storynexus names and Fallen London names?"

yes, please. also, what's up with the official forum usernames? they constantly change for some people. somewhat confusing; one day, a guy will show an username of 'billybob', the next day 'jimmyjeans' and then on another day as 'wizcheese12'. these people sometimes don't know it happens till they post or edit. i'm not certain of the exact factors, but i've heard they're based on facebook/twitter signup/login or something else.

while you're at it, make recommendations to people to put their FL profile links in their official forum profile and/or their signatures. that is, if they've got a FBG forum account. might as well link to the Singing Mandrake subforum, too; they might not know of its existence.
ZDee (talk) 08:28, July 8, 2013 (UTC)

p.s.

i annihilated your "Bronze Storylets". it is mourned at http://fallenlondon.wiki/wiki/Forum:Storylets%27_colours...

would you like to resuscitate it? i can send you a sweet sack of rats if it'll make you feel better... know that i still love you.
ZDee (talk) 11:52, July 8, 2013 (UTC)

Yo, yo, you are needed! Please update the Social Actions guide to remind people to name their StoryNexus ID when they ask for social invites on the FBG forum or elsewhere.

The SN bar is closest to Dark Orange:

http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Help:Color

EDIT: Let me try it now.

Ye gods, it is most hideous! Never mind, don't use it.
ZDee (talk) 05:19, September 8, 2013 (UTC)

I had an orange bar image on my PC either way, so I just used that...
Aximillio (talk) 12:08, September 8, 2013 (UTC)

Btw, you don't need to enter RBG codes apparently. Of course, that's even worse... And how is this chocolate - It's orange! Will take some time finding good colours, I guess... X
Aximillio (talk) 12:10, September 8, 2013 (UTC)

Orange bar is no longer orange on Fallen London!

It's now dark gray. It's still orange on other StoryNexus worlds.

EDIT: Oh, I see; we can just use their color names. Agreed: that is definitely not chocolate!
ZDee (talk) 21:18, September 9, 2013 (UTC)

Done.
Aximillio (talk) 14:32, September 10, 2013 (UTC)

"Sorted by value instead of alphabetically. Feel free to revert if you think so."

Why are we doing it by value? I listed Unpredictable Treasures alphabetically because I thought it would be the most convenient (and fastest) way for a reader to find the item they're seeking. Even though Jemann's news post teaches players how to locate the UT value by using the Scrapbook Status trick, it's a fiddly trick which won't be used often for UT. You can't reroll your value unless you spend 4 Fate; it doesn't seem like something players will pay for often.

Pursuing an Archaeological Expedition is listed by value because you can keep playing through Curios till you stumble upon the appropriate Airs to unlock any of the expedition's Airs-specific options.

Shouldn't we just list the page alphabetically while placing the UT value in parentheses beside the option names? If you think ordering them strictly by value is best, then we should still add the value #'s in the options list. (For a reader who doesn't know the values, the list looks random.) I won't wrestle you for the privilege of organizing the page, so go with your heart's desire. :P
ZDee (talk) 15:07, July 15, 2013 (UTC)

Kay, I'll mention the values, then =)
Aximillio (talk) 15:10, July 15, 2013 (UTC)

Cool! :)

It's good to see you back here full-time(?) now. I misssed you! :(

I'm considering extra courses this summer and going on vacation, so I'm not sure how much time I can devote to updating the wiki. Ideally, people would take shifts to update the wiki... Crap, I really do need a vacation. I'm starting to think of this place as my full-time job. :P
ZDee (talk) 15:14, July 15, 2013 (UTC)

I'll probably be quite unpredictable over the course of the summer. Also, remember RL > Wiki-editing.
Aximillio (talk) 15:22, July 15, 2013 (UTC)

Kinda addicted to this place. Must step away at times to reanalyze life goals. XD

"Not sure if it actually looks better..."

Eh, it doesn't look better, but I've thought of something else: I can make a table with small icons and values in ascending order (something similar to the one at The Writer's Desk). Only two options share the same action icon; the others have their own, so it's visually easy to track options. I'll do this later today. I have to step out to inquire about those extra courses I mentioned. Byyye!
ZDee (talk) 15:31, July 15, 2013 (UTC)

Okay, how's it look now? Acceptable?? (Better than the Menace tables, I figure; I'm going to see if I can tweak those further. nope, never mind. Harder than expected.)
ZDee (talk) 03:06, July 16, 2013 (UTC)

Menace Icons

Wow, did you really finish updating the rest of the old menace icons? Great job!

I see Vae Victis is still on his one-man crusade to update all the Broad challenges alphabetically even if it kills him... Bravo!
ZDee (talk) 18:48, July 16, 2013 (UTC)

a new option on the begin an expedition in the forgotten quarter screen

do you know anyone who has a skull/would be willing to test it

http://25.media.tumblr.com/3cdc3bd0322ebceafa8c3fa391347133/tumblr_mq9ggyRxHL1s2em7no1_1280.png

http://25.media.tumblr.com/9f6d5842dbdb901780eda46a3a01060b/tumblr_mq9ggyRxHL1s2em7no2_1280.png

it only shows people who actually have eyeless skulls of their own though
Flapdragon (talk) 00:42, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't have one anymore (will tell if I get one!)
Aximillio (talk) 01:06, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

Does watchful increase with this action?

Unlikely. The success didn't have a Watchful increase so it's probably the same for failure.

By the way:

User talk:Jemann#Did you receive and read Wikia's monthly admin email?
ZDee (talk) 21:30, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

"A cavalry officer" with low Shadowy

I've noticed you updating low-level pages. If you have a character with Shadowy<40, could you check the A cavalry officer action every few levels so that we'd get a better idea how the rewards progress? Or do the same thing with Shadowy>81 (that's mine max modified Shadowy)?

P.S.

I think polls will be more visible at the middle of the main screen - either just above "Share your Fallen London adventures with the rest of the world!" or just below "Content needed for: Menaces, Items and Guides."
Vae Victis (talk) 22:24, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

The hard part is making the rest of the page look nice as well =P

My main's 165 w/o items and my lowest alt is 21, so I guess I could. Whenever I get some airs, that is...
Aximillio (talk) 22:38, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

That looks fine. Since the poll is up front and center, please lengthen News Feed back to 5 posts.

The elephant in the room is still Forum Activity. It's uncomfortably long. If only it would stick to loading the most recent 5 discussions, the front page wouldn't look so silly. It's odd that we can't cut it off like News Feed and Latest Activity... Should we ask the Wikia community for assistance?
ZDee (talk) 02:15, July 22, 2013 (UTC)

It's great. Thanks Aximillio!
Vae Victis (talk) 07:05, July 22, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, yay, you shortened Forum Activity! :D It looks far better now, thank you.
ZDee (talk) 01:04, July 23, 2013 (UTC)

Well, I got bunch of low-level character for Rare-success experiment. If you have time, I can lend/hand some over for SCIENCE. Right now I'm exploring Go_as_far_out_as_you_can storylet - spreadsheet shows 3 rare success, so there got to be one. Look like it's really rare, though.
Nedemmons (talk) 02:21, July 23, 2013 (UTC)

Nedemmons: I'd be happy to test this with some of your spare characters!
Vae Victis (talk) 12:15, July 23, 2013 (UTC)

Vae Victis wrote:

Nedemmons: I'd be happy to test this with some of your spare characters!

Wait for awhile - I'll send PM when I'm ready. Ok, wikia lack private message function. How should I deliver these accounts?

Also, please handle them with love! I spent lots of effort on them :)
Nedemmons (talk) 13:55, July 23, 2013 (UTC)

Either use message walls or pms on the forums, I think.
Aximillio (talk) 14:44, August 3, 2013 (UTC)

[Previous Message deleted] Thanks! I'll send them when I get time. Most are low-level, so it would be good way to see the changes.
Nedemmons (talk) 15:00, August 3, 2013 (UTC)

I'm Vae Victis on the forums as well (though I'm totally inactive there).

But please don't send the accounts right now because I won't be able to do much good with them right now. I need to wait until the Wikia loading issue resolves itself first (I'll send them an error report).
Vae Victis (talk) 15:07, August 3, 2013 (UTC)

My bug problems seem to have passed and I'll be able to test the action now. Send them whenever you want. I'll be grinding actions that get me Airs of London to use on this action, but if there is anything you don't won't me to do with the characters, please say so.
Vae Victis (talk) 13:55, August 6, 2013 (UTC)

Vae Victis wrote:

My bug problems seem to have passed and I'll be able to test the action now. Send them whenever you want. I'll be grinding actions that get me Airs of London to use on this action, but if there is anything you don't won't me to do with the characters, please say so.

I'll send you more later through secret method - for now, I'll hand you these minor char.

* ID: Twilight_Frontier@zippymail.info PS: Twilight_Frontier
* ID: Brinkmanship@zippymail.info PS: Brinkmanship
* (Facebook Account) ID: slicklover@zippymail.info PS: slicklover
Nedemmons (talk) 14:39, August 7, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks!

Edit: Thanks again, Nedemmons. I got the 3 scrap threshold. The rest of the data I'll gather from my character. Still not enough data for me, but I'm getting closer at least.
Vae Victis (talk) 14:52, August 7, 2013 (UTC)

Madame Petrovsky in the Wars of Illusion

This is my first encounter with this, and I need some help. Is her branch of the War entirely drawn with cards?

A Theosophistical Development (unlocked with Seeking... 5 )

A Theosophistical Excursion (unlocked with Seeking... 5 )

A Philosophical Commission (unlocked with Seeking... 5 )

A Theosophistical Séance (unlocked with Seeking... 6 )

A Theosophistical Occasion (unlocked with Seeking... 9 )

The second card, the Excursion, is categorized with "Mahogany Hall". Is it only drawn there or is it a storylet?

Is there an Investigating counterpart to Madame Petrovsky?

Are her cards only drawn at Embroiled in the Wars of Illusion level 10, or can I still draw them at level 20?
ZDee (talk) 22:51, August 2, 2013 (UTC)

I haven't seen the excursion, yet. My main's never drawn either of these cards (or the storyline itself), so it might have an upper boundary.
Aximillio (talk) 14:36, August 3, 2013 (UTC)

Aw, crap. If I can't draw the cards at Watchmaker's Hill within the next few weeks, I'll move to Mahogany Hall for flipping.

EDIT: Shot you a forum PM about fate-locked content.
ZDee (talk) 05:09, August 4, 2013 (UTC)

My alt had drawn at least one of the cards outside of Mahogany Hall, but I forget which one(s). The rest seem to only be drawn in that area. I haven't tested whether the story only shows at 10, but I believe they are. I've been keeping her from progressing until all the failures are recorded.
Delmar Tramontane (talk) 05:47, August 4, 2013 (UTC)

What a relief, thank you! :D

I'll park Zee Dee at level 10 and test to see which cards can be drawn outside of Mahogany Hall. Once that's settled, I'll have another alt experiment on whether the cards can be drawn at higher levels; there's a point in the Wars when you can jump to 15 and then back to 9 if you decide to play both sides.
ZDee (talk) 06:13, August 4, 2013 (UTC)

enquiry

Would you prefer that I just paste the new information I have into a comment or here on the wall so you don't have to keep cleaning up behind me on edits?  It's no problem.  I just hate to see how much extra work my contributions are making for you.
Miss Strangeweather (talk) 14:50, August 9, 2013 (UTC)

It's not extra work at all =)
Aximillio (talk) 14:53, August 9, 2013 (UTC)

"Action - Nervous system?"

I was just talking crazy. Erroneous crazy, too! The brain is already part of the nervous system: http://www.news-medical.net/health/What-is-the-Nervous-System.aspx

The 'Action' template isn't akin to the human body's nervous system -- that would be the editor screen. 'Action' is more appropriate as muscle (durrr, Zeedee). Shucks, now I have to edit my lousy body metaphors!

Plus: I'm going to buzz off for the day, possibly the weekend, and maybe the entire week of next week; I'm not sure beyond today. If I don't get around to replying to anything important here, PM me at the forum. I'll still play FL, but I might be too preoccupied to keep up with the wiki.
ZDee (talk) 13:43, August 10, 2013 (UTC)

Ah, so it's an actual word then. My medical English is, to say it as it is, poor.
Aximillio (talk) 14:24, August 10, 2013 (UTC)

Continuing Template Conversation

Things have been crazy on my end. They're only going to get crazier during the next 3 months, but here's my late reply to Lose half your Nightmares#cs-comment-59349

"Yes, outdated is completely unnecessary if we change stubs.

I don't agree with axing ventures and friend invites, simply because we'd have to integrate them in stories or some different template. Acquaintance is almost 100% the same as stories, so that could pretty easily be merged. The only potential issue is that acquaintances aren't exactly stories and will get the story category, but that's not too bad..."

'Ventures' template is 'Stories' with a fixed Progress and Conclusion layout. It's handy at times, and it can be merged if necessary. I'm far more bothered by the way ventures are linked than anything else. The individual pages frequently don't link to their original storylets or cards, and the categories are sometimes nonexistent or blank. It's very confusing over in Ventureland. I believe most of the blame goes to the fact that 90% of the Venture options are named the same. :P

'Friend Invites' isn't used on any of our social action articles, surprisingly. 'Social Actions' is used for polite invitations to Surface and Neathy friends alike. In fact, it was made last year because 'Social Actions' was found lacking:

Forum:Template for Friend Invites

But then I guess someone edited 'Social Actions' to be more inclusive, so 'Friend Invites' went unused. ...Checking 'Social Actions' History, it seems that "someone" was you, haha. XD

Our major 4 acquaintances (Forger, Singer, Soldier, Functionary) are sorted under "Acquaintance" in the Myself page, but the newer ones (Mercies, Detective, Poet, Princess and probably Silas the Showman) are placed in "Story". Does this mean they won't be our long-time pals like the first 4? Is FBG reserving the option to turn them into story branches rather than people intimate with our characters? Is coding the "Acquaintance" section really, really hard? The more I think about it, the more puzzled I become!

Anyway, we can vote later to rename "Stub" to "Incomplete" (or something else if someone comes up with a better name). I would really like to ask people if they're aware of the "Article stub" category and what it means in the first place.
ZDee (talk) 00:41, August 28, 2013 (UTC)

If friend invites isn't used we should obviously axe it, as it's primary effect is being confusing.

As for acquaintances, I guess you're right. As long as acquaintances are mere story fragments, I guess a template for acquaintances gets confusing as well.

I think I agree with you now. There's nothing stopping us from using story templates all over, and simply adding different categories for individual stories/more headlines etc. It would certainly allow versatility in editing ventures. Not all ventures have all actions, and some have more, and by editing every venture instead of using a template we can omit the details we don't need. Having an example venture to keep similar designs might be better?





Oh, and btw., I won't be too active this month, so you know =)
Aximillio (talk) 16:41, August 28, 2013 (UTC)

'Friend Invites' - voted off the island!

Urthdigger's suggestion of facebook and twitter message parameters still sounds useful; sometimes the title and description of the invitations differ depending on whether you use FB or twitter. Now there's the option to send regular email requests, and that may also have different text. Should those 3 parameters be added to 'Social Actions', or should people manually code them in as necessary? I've seen pages where editors noted in brackets alternate text for FB/twitter invites: [Twitter users get this message: blah blah]. Rethinking it, adding so many more parameters would further confuse things... Leaving individual notes seems better.

'Acquaintances' - voted to be eaten. :E

It's quite easy for us to delete it and revive it if the need arises. For now, though, I think it'd be better to replace the acquaintance pages with 'Stories' and manually add the secondary category Acquaintances.

'Ventures' - reincarnated as a display piece?

"Having an example venture to keep similar designs might be better?"

You mean a sample page with a blank code layout for editors to copy, paste and fill in on another page (like we sort of do with Quicklist)? Icon, Description, Unlock, Levels/Progress, Conclusion?

Yo, let's update the 'Item' template, too:

Forum:Template:Item

Kick out "Item Type (as seen in the game)"? Out of the several hundreds of item pages I've edited, I've seriously only seen it used 3-4 times in total and they weren't even necessary instances. Its original purpose seems to have vanished.

"I won't be too active this month, so you know =)"

=(
ZDee (talk) 04:43, August 29, 2013 (UTC)

Message from Miss Strangeweather

I had already added 'An easy confidence' in its correct position (assuming you have the Confident Smiles) to the Storylets.  What did I do wrong this time that you had to add a second one?
Miss Strangeweather (talk) 14:57, August 30, 2013 (UTC)

Committed

"What can I categorise this as?"

It really doesn't appear anywhere in your FL profile's Qualities? I'm not married yet, so I can't personally check.

For lack of anything clearer, just classify it under "Qualities". We'll update it if FL tells us otherwise.
ZDee (talk) 14:24, September 8, 2013 (UTC)

The thing is: You don't get the quality. You only get items that boost it, similar to Respectable etc. But it doesn't show up on the left side, so it's definitely not a main attribute. Trying to empty Special:UncategorizedCategories, see =P
Aximillio (talk) 17:27, September 8, 2013 (UTC)

Gah, my head... Good thing "Qualities" is there as a general umbrella.

As for Hardgoat Mode, place it under "Administrative Abuse". ;P
ZDee (talk) 04:23, September 9, 2013 (UTC)

Awesome, then I know where to link everything but making waves. Shall I include it in Quirk gain/Loss categories or shall I make a story one?
Aximillio (talk) 09:48, September 9, 2013 (UTC)

Shall I double-categorise Indulging a Landaunum habit as quirk/menace?
Aximillio (talk) 10:12, September 9, 2013 (UTC)

I'm not categorising the sign of the Zodiac with this, because it works differently. What about Changed by the Iron Republic? Is that actually a progress quality in disguise?
Aximillio (talk) 10:21, September 9, 2013 (UTC)

I've put Making Waves Gain/Loss under "Making Waves" as its subcategories.

It's good that you re-categorized Laudanum Habit as a Quirk with Gain/Loss. Actually, Loss is still "Cures" left over from its wiki days as a menace. Hold on, I'll rename them.

Wh-what about the Iron Republic? I haven't been there yet, so I don't know. :-/ Is it one of those invisible counters like Committed and living stories?

EDIT: Sorted & relinked Laudanum Gain/Loss pages; made redirect pages for them, too.
ZDee (talk) 20:25, September 9, 2013 (UTC)

No, every action in there gives you CP's of the quality, which can then be spent when you leave. We've catalogised it as a story/progress quality before, so I figured I should ask.
Aximillio (talk) 14:34, September 10, 2013 (UTC)

Missing CP

I don't think you should put it under the Stubs category, because roughly a quarter of all actions (about tow thousand articles) are missing some or all CP, but otherwise those article are usually up to date.

You and ZDee discussed the Incomplete category and I think that "Missing CP" fit that category much better than the Stubs one.
Vae Victis (talk) 15:56, September 23, 2013 (UTC)

True, and most of them are so close to complete you can guess approximate amount of CP they'll get you. The reason I've linked it to Stubs is because it's easier to keep track of categories once they're linked to something else - not because they're much of an issue. If you find "Site maintenance" or a different category to be a more suitable category, feel free to link it there instead/in addition.

I think we're renaming Article Stubs to Incomplete Pages entirily and just leaving a redirect + changing templates. It's a more correct name either way.
Aximillio (talk) 19:05, September 23, 2013 (UTC)

I linked it to Site maintenance.
Vae Victis (talk) 20:48, September 23, 2013 (UTC)

(No troubled by vermin drop on rare success?)

It surprised me a bit as well, but no, the screen didn't show any drop in troubled by vermin. I almost didn't notice it myself, because it was only my third rare success that followed a number of regular successes. Both of the two previous ones were at the start of a session of ratbattling, so I didn't notice the difference.

(And I have no idea how you put that question where you put it, and how I was supposed to reply. I've never used any wiki before this one. So this is the best I could do.)
Gillsing (talk) 18:39, September 29, 2013 (UTC)

This works well =P

I wrote it as an edit summary, because it's convenient for me if I have any minor comments while editing, and because future editors can then see we've wondered about it before by viewing history.
Aximillio (talk) 20:27, September 29, 2013 (UTC)

Velocipede Squad category page

Aximillio! I rather like what you did with the Velocipede Squad category page. Will use it as a template for similar pages. :)
Bertrandwins (talk) 05:10, October 2, 2013 (UTC)

Awesome! If you want to add something you're obviously welcome to that as well =)
Aximillio (talk) 10:09, October 2, 2013 (UTC)

Missing Carnival Cards

Category:Sign of the Chiropteromantic Zodiac

If there are 12 signs, we only know of 4 zodiac group cards (glacial, metamorphic, speleothemic, igneous), and 2 signs appear on each group card...then we're still missing 2 zodiac group cards.

Haven't even counted the missing results for the signs we have and the lack of pages for the signs we don't have ("Find out more about the So-and-So-Sign"). We could make placeholder pages for the absent "Find out more..." signs, though. Just throwing it out there.

By the way, how should we describe location-specific cards in the "Unlocked with" section?

A. Wilmot's End (it only appears there)

B. Spite (it's only drawn there)

C. Lodgings (card only appears there)

D. Wolfstack Docks (card only drawn there)

I prefer D best because it's the most self-explanatory note to readers.
ZDee (talk) 07:21, October 15, 2013 (UTC)

D sounds more complete, yeah. We can't really do too much editing on the placeholder cards, so I'm not sure about that. Making them a 'wanted' kind of article could work, I guess...

I mean - we can probably make the title, but not really that much more...
Aximillio (talk) 16:55, October 15, 2013 (UTC)

I also suspect that each "Find out more..." sign option has a rare success like in Find out more about the Lady, so they should probably get RS templates to let people know that they exist.

It's better to have the pages in place so that people can info dump in the Comments sections if they don't know how to edit but do possess the relevant info. It's harder to fill in those blanks since you have to pay Fate to switch signs.

All my characters have signs, so I'll try to fill in the missing results (a few rare results). I'll bum around at the Carnival.

"D sounds more complete, yeah."

Let's be consistent about it. I'll update the entire location-specific cards list with new unlocks later today. :)
ZDee (talk) 22:58, October 15, 2013 (UTC)

Hallowmas requirements

I didn't buy that Fate-locked storyline yet. I'm not even in the 4th Coil of the Labyrinth yet... :( Please PM me the results of the Bishop of Southwark's visit, someone, anyone.

By the way, which pieces of gear grant additional Nightmares? I own the Sporing Bonnet for +1 Nightmares. Any others?

The description of Feeding the River was amended today to suggest "If you need Putting The Pieces Together: The Drownies, try courier jobs in Spite..." What does that specify? Take a message to the river (5 FATE), right? Or a rare success for one of the regular options of A courier job?
ZDee (talk) 22:35, October 23, 2013 (UTC)

I'll see if I can do the southwark one as I have the reqs. Hoping Spacemarine posts the smen option (if it raises it I might want to give it a go...) No other gear gives nightmares afaik.

It's the fate option.
Aximillio (talk) 22:54, October 23, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks!

The SMEN option requires 3 Tiny Cave Fish. Goodness, that sounds like a lot of fishies. If you use the access code, that's 1 free, but you'll have to get the others from 2 separate Bandaged Poissonier visits (or at least I think he sells you 1 fishy per visit). Hrm, I better prepare for that.
ZDee (talk) 23:03, October 23, 2013 (UTC)

Any idea what the storylets will give btw? It sounds like they'll be teasers for future content for me, but that raises the question of what this content could be...

Or it could simply be SS captains and I'm just optimistic...
Aximillio (talk) 23:07, October 23, 2013 (UTC)

I'm guessing the Halloween event will end with a major story choice. You'll receive distinctive rewards (story qualities and/or items alongside a narrative piece) depending on your destination. Maybe it'll be a choice of sides between Masters, the Bazaar, or the usual Contacts.

The newest description of the Visitors at Hallowmas card hints at it:

"These options will unlock some time on the 24th of October. Most of them will permit you a very particular glimpse of a future, when Halloween comes. Choose carefully."

I read that as "choose your conclusion carefully". The Hallowmas visitors should provide hints for each destination. The fate-locked Hell lecture also hinted at a choice of destinies, so for the final Hallowmas card/storylet, there should be an option unlocked for those who are soulless.

EDIT: But if you're asking about specific items, I'm not sure. I sorta expect at least 1 edible Curiosity (other than the Tiny Cave Fish). A chocolate bat or such?
ZDee (talk) 23:23, October 23, 2013 (UTC)

I was hoping some of the storylines would reach their conclusions. The bishop is slightly unfinished from the fate-locked story (as the actual trip hasn't been done), The war of illusions is unconcluded, Reliable list also pretty much is. I guess each faction could give an items with notable bonuses as well, as you're presumably only able to choose one. The captains may be from SS?

But either way, it would be nice to collect all on the wiki (bar the fate-locked one...)
Aximillio (talk) 23:40, October 23, 2013 (UTC)

Rethinking it, each Destiny may give a player one of the "This may ultimately be the key to your future" story qualities, or boost such a quality significantly. Those are big, big qualities.

Either way, we should get story lore which provides large puzzle pieces or answers to certain narrative riddles. Mr Pages is quite the mystery with his use of Benjamin Villein and the Special Constables. I would like to pursue that route if it presents itself. The Mahogany Hall (Parabola and Fingerkings, wheee) one is intriguing, too. The Bishop of Southwark is a fun guy, but I'm really not far enough ahead to choose such an option. Of course, we shall also receive character backgrounds for the Sunless Sea crew who make guest presentations this Hallowmas.

I'm worried about the Destiny requirements, particularly any soulless and SMEN ones. Zeedee already regained his soul, but he probably wouldn't choose a soulless option, anyway. Knotacare is my sole soulless alt, but she may not possess the other unlock requirements necessary to play a soulless option. I'm only at SMEN 4 (or was it 5?) with my Seeker alt. Bah... :P
ZDee (talk) 23:56, October 23, 2013 (UTC)

I'm rather confident Space will choose the smen option. Just because. I haven't drawn the card yet myself, though.
Aximillio (talk) 08:59, October 24, 2013 (UTC)

The draw rate for the Visitors card seems to have gone up significantly! Did you gain Possible Futures for all your accounts? Each of my characters now have a Possible Future. I was rather concerned for 2 of them earlier, but the Visitors have been banging down my door the entire day today.

I might just get my aquarium of Tiny Cave Fish, after all. I'm currently at 6. I want 14 so they'll have enough members for water polo. :)
ZDee (talk) 11:04, October 31, 2013 (UTC)

Aximillio wrote:

I'm rather confident Space will choose the smen option. Just because. I haven't drawn the card yet myself, though.

Correct :>



and it's horribly awful, as you'd expect.

I have almost every Destiny recorded... I don't know about posting a link here, it might be a bit too public, but if you send me a forum PM I can give you the document.
Spacemarine9 (talk) 13:03, October 31, 2013 (UTC)

Can you send me that PM via e-mail adress that I will send you in-game? I got Authority by saving Bishop... though that vision of Parabolan future disturbs me. And I feel very sore for giving up my chance to "free myself", even though I do not regret my choice.   
Nedemmons (talk) 13:17, October 31, 2013 (UTC)

"Can we include bracket text to synopsis?"

What do you mean?
Vae Victis (talk) 09:54, October 26, 2013 (UTC)

Like this: [You may later be able to upgrade the Missionary companion, or make her your Spouse. This concludes the story of the Missionary and the Firebrand for now: but you may be able to sell the knowledge you've gained, and the Nadir remains open to you. When your irrigo has faded, you may return there...]
Aximillio (talk) 09:55, October 26, 2013 (UTC)

The game's instructions and tips ("Now head to Ladybones Road to meet a certain detective." "Take your Investigating... to 5 to meet the Pallid Watchmaker's child.") They're usually italicized or bold, but when you copy them to your journal, [they turn up in square brackets].

They're not actual story content. It'd be better to move them from the Quote field to the Summary field. Just rephrase them?
ZDee (talk) 09:59, October 26, 2013 (UTC)

Awesome, they generally are both informative and spacious, so that'd be nice =)
Aximillio (talk) 10:01, October 26, 2013 (UTC)

I suggest that for now we keep a note on all the things we need to change (there is also the extra space issue). When we're sure about all the new issues with the new code we'll update it. Otherwise we'll be messing with 40 templates constantly.
Vae Victis (talk) 10:03, October 26, 2013 (UTC)

No, wait, stop, stop, Aximillio.

When you crop down the pages with excess characters, they're removed from category "Immediate Review". We'll lose track of which pages need to be deleted & restored selectively. Remember the fossilized revisions? Those have to be cleared from the system.
ZDee (talk) 10:04, October 26, 2013 (UTC)

Haha, I know I said the spoiler box on the front page was appealing as a warning sign, but the more I see it, the more it makes my eyes hurt. I guess that's the whole point: "HEY, LOOKIT ME! I'MMA MAKE YOUR EYES BLEED." XD
ZDee (talk) 10:24, October 26, 2013 (UTC)

Put up whichever you prefer.
Aximillio (talk) 14:53, October 26, 2013 (UTC)

I'm going to reupdate the templates again to feature the newer code (the one that shows both user summary and description). Since we already have a use for the brackets, how about triangular brackets? <player summary>? Or none at all, because the title "Player summary" is fairly self explanatory.
Vae Victis (talk) 15:02, October 26, 2013 (UTC)

I prefer the spoiler box best. It was just an offhand remark. :)

What brackets? The player summary displays itself inside square brackets? Whuh? I'm kinda lost here. I do care about what you're saying, and I'm trying to concentrate, but I need to sleep SO BAD. I actually doze off while standing on a train earlier. -_- Oh, um, do you mean how to format the words "Player summary" on an article? Something simple like this:

Success Title

Success Quote

Player Summary:

Summary

Bold with a colon to announce itself. (Maybe along with italics if you think that looks better? Or an underline?) No line space between it and the summary.
ZDee (talk) 00:55, October 27, 2013 (UTC)

Aximillio wanted the summary text appear in square brackets, but we already have a use for them. So I suggested to have another type of brackets. At any rate, for now the summary should work the way you showed it and appear below the description teaser. Let's see if that looks OK.
Vae Victis (talk) 08:49, October 27, 2013 (UTC)

Ah, sorry, there's been a misunderstanding here. I want to put the game instructions, which the game places in square brackets in the summary in a way. Whether there's square brackets around the summary is irrelevant.
Aximillio (talk) 11:28, October 27, 2013 (UTC)

That's what I thought! XD Sure thing; move the game instructions to the Player Summary field. That's important information, but it isn't actively part of your character's tale, so it should work fine (maybe even better!) in the summary portion.
ZDee (talk) 02:59, October 28, 2013 (UTC)

Attract a Visitor at Hallowmas works?
Aximillio (talk) 16:53, October 28, 2013 (UTC)

Everything works! I just tried deleting-undeleting myself and all seems well.

Suggestion: When we shorten the FL copied description into a teaser lets put (...) to indicate where we cut the original text. Like the failure in '....I have a few friends yet in Society...
Vae Victis (talk) 18:23, October 28, 2013 (UTC)

So let me get this straight: Would it be helpful if I, as a regular and relatively new editor, manually shortened texts to 250 characters or less, picking the 'choisest' parts? Or would it be better if I left that to adminstrators to make sure it's done right? I read the notices that turned up during the weekend, but I didn't feel comfortable to start deleting stuff without knowing exactly what was going on.
Gillsing (talk) 19:14, October 28, 2013 (UTC)

The thing is, only admins can delete and undelete stuff (for obvious reasons), so if you edited them you'd also have to tell us exactly which articles you fixed so we could delete/undelete. Basically, if you see something else that needs a fix, it would be better if you helped there. I guess we could make an exception for articles with like 251 chars, but then you'd also have the issue of finding those...

That being said, if you make sure to limit yourself to 250 chars whenever you upload new game articles, that'd be awesome!

Also, you can make edit summaries, just make sure not to remove the other text as that means our category disappears, which is inconvenient...
Aximillio (talk) 19:29, October 28, 2013 (UTC)

Btw, I think hallowmas articles are done now, sonow there's only the rest of the articles left =)
Aximillio (talk) 19:31, October 28, 2013 (UTC)

I interpret this as "let the professionals handle it". ;-)
Gillsing (talk) 21:20, October 28, 2013 (UTC)

Should we choose a category that editors can add to a page they've trimmed? Say, Trimmed. That way non-admins can do the editing and signal an admin for the actual delete/restore trick. (Although someone would then need to remove the category as well, hmm).
Jemann (talk) 01:13, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

"Trimmed" is an adequate category. :) Note everyone to add it. Update the front page, New Wiki Policy news post, and Editing Guidelines to remind people to add the category once they slim down a page to 250 characters?

"(Although someone would then need to remove the category as well, hmm)."

Admins will have to remember to do that as the final step when we restore a page. I'm fine with it.
ZDee (talk) 06:34, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

Yep, it's a lot less work to fix the trimmed category than to choose words for pretty much everything!
Aximillio (talk) 14:53, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

I've added info on the Trimmed category to the Immediate review template. It should be visible on all relevant pages in several hours.
Vae Victis (talk) 17:15, October 29, 2013 (UTC)

The colors, the colors!

There are new background and border colors for cards and storylets! Found them from the improved HELP tab of the game:

"Bronze means something a little special - perhaps part of a continuing story.

Silver means something quite special, like an Ambition or Seasonal content.

Gold means something exceptional, often a once-only story. Pay attention.

Purple means a card that only appears occasionally.

Red on a card-border means it will take effect as soon as you click it.

Black is not to be spoken of."

Oh my gosh, I have to fiddle with the blasted Beginner's Guide again. :P
ZDee (talk) 18:38, November 13, 2013 (UTC)

Black!?!
Aximillio (talk) 19:33, November 13, 2013 (UTC)

Not yet, but it's upcoming. I mean, it's already mentioned in the Help tab FAQ!

Black is most likely Seeker-specific content.

By the way, if you want confessions from all my characters, go right ahead. :)
ZDee (talk) 20:43, November 13, 2013 (UTC)

Seeking is the new black, apparently.
Delmar Tramontane (talk) 22:51, November 13, 2013 (UTC)

*clap clap*

Damn, why didn't I think to say that? What a missed opportunity!
ZDee (talk) 23:12, November 13, 2013 (UTC)

"Any clue what this gives you?"

The Fogscape of Tentacles card still looks to give 5 CP of Making Waves and an uncapped 5 Sudden Insights. I can't tell how much Nightmares is reduced. My Watchful is also maxed out, so I don't know how many CP of Watchful it would have given me. Thanks for the card!
ZDee (talk) 01:57, December 7, 2013 (UTC)

Quite a lot at least. Watchful's the only skill i haven't capped, so that's why I send it =P
Aximillio (talk) 15:08, December 7, 2013 (UTC)

Social actions

I've been trying to simplify our social action templates. For that purpose I've made three new ones that function like the regular action-rare-failure template trio. More about them here and here.

ZDee told me that you and Jemann take part in K&C and I wanted your input on how to make the new templates more compatable with K&C. As it looks now, template:Social Actions - Contest can be covered by the new templates (unless I'm missing something!) but Template:Social Actions - Attack can't. Do I need to make three additional templates to cover the Attack template?
Vae Victis (talk) 16:51, February 24, 2014 (UTC)

Good job on the Social templates - trying to add truncation to the old ones was unworkable.

I haven't touched K&C since I obtained a certain candle. The whole experience was... not for me.

The difference between Contest and Attack is that the recipient can choose whether to accept a Contest invitation. So with a Contest it's easier to distinguish between the 'recipient message' and the actual result once it's been accepted; with an Attack they're kind of muddled together. From memory the email notification can also differ from the in-game message... but as far as the templates go, I think Attack and Contest are basically the same.

To summarise:

* normal Social action = description, sent result, recipient text, accepted result, recipient result
* Social Contest = description, challenge, sent result, recipient text, winner result, loser result
* Social Attack = ditto, except hard to distinguish between sent result/recipient & winner/loser.
Jemann (talk) 23:32, February 24, 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the answer. I'll leave the K&C templates for now, until I get a better understanding of how K&C works. Though it looks like the template:Social Action can still be applied as the basic template, but I'll need new templates for winner/loser and such.

Final question: Do you happen to invite people to FL? Does the invitation looks like an ordinary social action? In other words, can the new templates take place of Template:Friend_Invite (which, granted, isn't being used at all)?
Vae Victis (talk) 00:36, February 25, 2014 (UTC)

Uncovering Secrets Framed in Gold

Hi,

I'm relatively new to this so I apologise if I screwed up but I need to get clarification on something (been playing FL for a few months and started editing the wiki for a couple of months or so ago). I noticed you deleted a couple of pages that I created last night and the placeholder message left was that content isn't allowed for Fate-locked actions. However, the pages that I had created (Card "A lost soul" and action "Ask questions of the Masters") didn't say anything about Fate on them. There were 2 other actions from that card that were Fate-locked but I had not tried those. Again, I'm relatively new at this so would you mind explaining what was the problem? Thanks. Wriothesley (talk) 18:19, April 13, 2014 (UTC)
Wriothesley (talk) 18:19, April 13, 2014 (UTC)

To my knowledge all storylets/cards past Uncovering secrets... 1 are fate-locked. From the deletion log I can see that the card requires Uncovering secrets... 9, making it Fate-locked. If you haven't paid any Fate/Nex to get to that point, I can undelete it, though.

We do show certain Fate-locked items in our items page, but that's more to show they exist, as placeholders, since outfits are pretty important in the game. We don't spoil much narrative by displaying an item list.
Aximillio (talk) 00:39, April 14, 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for explaining. I can't recall if I paid any Fate/Nex to advance that story...and my journal is not very helpful. If in future I decide to get rid of the painting and reboot the storyline I'll see if there's any non-Fate way to get to this point.
Wriothesley (talk) 01:05, April 14, 2014 (UTC)

You can't re-boot the story once you're above (...) 2, I think
Aximillio (talk) 01:09, April 14, 2014 (UTC)

Luck

Hello! Do you want the dream challenges (e.g.) to go in the luck category, too? Or would you rather keep them separate, like in the spreadsheet?
Indigofera (talk) 03:38, August 12, 2014 (UTC)

Personally, I think it could be convenient to have everything that's a luck challenge to have the luck category. Make it on par with other challenges, if you wish.
Aximillio (talk) 15:30, August 12, 2014 (UTC)

Mapping the Iron Republic

I recently got Geogebra - and curious. After all, even a lawless place can't be allowed dead ends or inescapable loops...

         

And there you have it: the structure of the Iron Republic (names left, effects right). Surprisingly orderly: almost like classic choice-IF, isn't it? Except with disorientating cross-links.

So: I was thinking to put these maps on the Iron Republic page, and I need your editorial input on... pretty much everything! :-) 

A few things that have already bothered me: I didn't include CPs, because they are the things that change most, and because they have almost no lasting effect in this place. It might be nice to highlight the quirks raising/menace resetting steps - or would that be too much? Also, these maps are huge; I'm not sure how to present such huge pictures...

Thank you very much if you agree to look these over! (I should really start sending you rats. :P)
Indigofera (talk) 14:59, September 29, 2014 (UTC)

Wow, I'm personally going to use those when I visit the Republic next! Ppa-maxers will want to know cps of changed by the iron republic gained. I think I'd enjoy the quirks/menace resetting actions standing more out, because those are honestly the most important there.

As for putting the images on the page; it might be as convenient to just put up some small images to click on rather than filling the entire category page with the maps. Because you really need them as large as the zoomed-in version on [1]
Aximillio (talk) 18:08, September 29, 2014 (UTC)

By the way, you don't need to send me rats. Spacemarine's a lot more interested in those, and I've got my übergoat from cash anyway, so yeah... If you want you can send me wounds reductions instead. I'm currently building my SotC, so it's getting high rather fast... Or I could grind boatman's opponent, I guess...
Aximillio (talk) 18:13, September 29, 2014 (UTC)

I use a large desktop monitor and even the zoomed out versions look good to me. They'd fit even better if you could split them into two halves (or three, with Day of reading getting its own image) and enlarge (since Day 40 and Day of reading are the only focal points). After that you could put them in an auto-collapsable table like this.
Vae Victis (talk) 21:04, October 4, 2014 (UTC)

Aximillio: I was only kidding about the rats, I'd never cut into Spacemarine's tithe :P I'm half minded not to send you anything, now, since you've made me take stock of all the missing ChbtIR CPs. It will take at least four trips to fill all of them in! (I'd coopt you, but I should probably do it myself to test the map...)

Vae: I'll do that; it'll be good if the two maps can fit side-by-side. (But once I have the CPs, so I don't flood the place with pictures.)
Indigofera (talk) 11:50, October 8, 2014 (UTC)

Finally.
Indigofera (talk) 02:34, February 23, 2015 (UTC)

Looks great! I imagine you're happy you're done with it as well =P
Aximillio (talk) 09:12, February 23, 2015 (UTC)

Trimming articles

Hi,

I've started to make a few additions on the wiki (as you've noticed) and I also want to help with the trimming effort.

I've trimmed the text of a few articles, and would love some feedback if I'm doing it correctly. If so, I'll go ahead and do a few like these every day.

Examples of recent edits:

A friendly duel with Mr Inch

A friendly duel with Father Norton

A friendly duel with Captain Vendrick
Adnoam (talk) 14:43, December 3, 2014 (UTC)

Looks perfect to me. I won't comment on text selection, as I'm neither a native English-speaker nor too interested in the specifics in conversations (I'm way more interested in mechanics and qualities). If you struggle with getting enough characters, you can save a few letters by using a '…' glyph, instead of dots. This only counts as one character. You can find this symbol under the 'more' button to the right of text formatting tools when editing in source mode.
Aximillio (talk) 15:48, December 3, 2014 (UTC)

Thanks

Hi,

Thank you for correcting all the things I did incorreclty in the many pages I've added/edited in the past few days!

I'll try to make fewer mistakes future edits!
Adnoam (talk) 11:33, December 7, 2014 (UTC)

Practice makes perfect =)
Aximillio (talk) 13:30, December 7, 2014 (UTC)

Urchins and lizards

Hello,

In a reply to a comment on Pursue a Scheme: offer some Urchins a place in your Orphanage you said that "200 cp urchins costs 5.6E in items (assuming you buy lizards)".

Could you please explain how to raise Urchins by spending 5.6E and buying lizards? I'd really like to do this, but my knowledge of the game has failed on this particular challenge (!) and my Urchins connection is too high to use a Rookery Password. 

Thanks for your help.
Douglas Blacktyde (talk) 15:02, December 24, 2014 (UTC)

It's based on using the rookery password, so you can't use it once you're above 20, I'm afraid.
Aximillio (talk) 20:47, December 26, 2014 (UTC)

Card frequencies

Wow, that was a massive update to lots of card pages :-)

But I'm confused as to how card frequencies should be captured and how the template works.

Some examples:

* Riding_your_Velocipede had no frequency field filled, but has "Standard Frequency" as a category. The card does not appear in the Category:Missing_Frequency page.

* Mirrors_and_Clay has both "Standard Frequency" and "Missing Frequency" categories.

* Promenade with the Celebrated Artist's Model has no frequency info, yet it doesn't not appear in Category:Missing_Frequency page.



I would love some direction on how to go about making everything consistent.

(I take some responsibility here, as I'm the one who suggested this change on the forum :-))
Adnoam (talk) 08:25, December 28, 2014 (UTC)

This problem consists of two minor ones. Previously, we used different card templates depending on the amount of options on the cards. We changed this, but there's still some cards that use Card 2 and Card 1. Technically, these should be moved to {{[[Template:Card|Card]]}}, but the lists are so great that I never get to finishing it. While we could add the frequency field to the other templates as well, I'd prefer to only work with one template.

---

* The first page used card 2 and had a category. The template should be changed to Card, the category should be removed, and the frequency should be templated.
* The second page used card and had a category. The template doesn't detect this and adds missing frequency as well. The category should be removed, and the frequency should be templated.
* Promenade (now) has card and templated category and is as it should be.



I'm not sure how easy it is to edit this in visual mode, but I find it pretty easy in source, as you can paste in the templated category and change templates pretty fast.

Hope that made some sense.
Aximillio (talk) 16:47, December 28, 2014 (UTC)

I'm fixing those pages, so they probably won't be that good examples anymore.
Aximillio (talk) 16:48, December 28, 2014 (UTC)

Got it. I'll also edit what I can according to this explanation.

Is there a way to get a list of all pages with "Card 1" or "Card 2" template?
Adnoam (talk) 18:08, December 28, 2014 (UTC)

Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Card 1 and Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Card 2
Aximillio (talk) 18:20, December 28, 2014 (UTC)

Day 4: 2014

Did you ever find out what the Duchess [or the other ones] do for the fate paid this year?

It's an unusual Day, only one non-fate option and no +Masters for high-end item option. =(





EDIT: Oh, nevermind. I found your [1] Link to it on I'm A Candle's page!
Jay Arafim (talk) 17:20, December 28, 2014 (UTC)

[1]. I found the link on the forums =)
Aximillio (talk) 17:22, December 28, 2014 (UTC)

Card template question

Hey, I saw below about converting to using Card rather than Card 2 and had a question about conversion.  Currently The Charming of F. F. Gebrandt has a 3rd option which points to Give up on this 4 with the text of just Give up on this.  How do you do this with the template?  Or can you just not and need to do this manually as it's done today?  Thanks!

S'pht (talk) 15:00, December 31, 2014 (UTC)
S'pht (talk) 15:00, December 31, 2014 (UTC)

You don't use the template, as you don't want the "4" in the option to actually show up. If you're in source mode, you write

*Give up on this

below the template. This would make a link which looks like Give up on this, but links to the -4 page. (a normal link would be *Give up on this)

For visual mode, I guess you could make an ordinary link and change where it leads?
Aximillio (talk) 16:28, December 31, 2014 (UTC)

Right, OK, so just leave it as-is for that and update the Template, will do, thanks!
S'pht (talk) 16:31, December 31, 2014 (UTC)

Janitor tasks?

Hey, since User:Adnoam beat me to finishing off Card 2 conversions, any other janitor tasks that can I can take a stab at while we wait for more opinions on handling holiday stuff? And what's the best way to get some more feedback on that idea? Thanks!
S'pht (talk) 18:35, December 31, 2014 (UTC)

I'll poke some admins/other active people, so they can tell their opinion. I'd like to be certain they're OK with it so we don't have to change plans when we're partially finished.

The endless things of things that would be good to do are:

* You might see we've added deck images to Cave of the Nadir and Polythreme Streets. The plan is to get one, as well as a functioning card category for every location where you have a different deck than the London one, as I think it would make it easier to see exactly which cards can be drawn in x area etc. I have a list of locations under User:Aximillio#Decks. It might not be complete.

* Continue trimming articles. I know this is sort of a different kind of task (and that it's a very big task), but it's important for the wiki's relations to FBG, so yeah... I personally find it quite boring as well, so I won't judge, but yeah...

* Quirk gain categories: Compare Category:Austere Gain to Category:Magnanimous Gain. I've been trying to sort actions based on where the caps for actions are. The way to do this is probably best done in source mode, and I think I might need a picture to show it well enough, so it can wait. But I'd still like some feedback on whether it looks awful or what. I don't want to do it like at Category:Hedonist Gain, because I think that would be much harder to keep up-to-date with new actions being released.

* {{Storylet 1}} and {{Storylet 2}} work a little bit like the card templates did. The numbered templates don't have a "This storylet appears in ..." line. This isn't a big issue, but it's still better to have these in one template instead of three.

I usually try to keep my user page up-to-date on these kind of things, so you can see there if there's anything else I'd like to get done.

Also, don't let this list overwhelm you. It's just as important to actually enjoy the game.
Aximillio (talk) 20:57, December 31, 2014 (UTC)

* You might see we've added deck images to Cave of the Nadir and Polythreme Streets. The plan is to get one, as well as a functioning card category for every location where you have a different deck than the London one, as I think it would make it easier to see exactly which cards can be drawn in x area etc. I have a list of locations under User:Aximillio#Decks. It might not be complete.

I think I'm going to get started on this one.

wrt trimming, I try and do that as I see it, I've been around for a year or so now so I've got some idea what's important Lore-wise now at least.
S'pht (talk) 21:11, December 31, 2014 (UTC)

Well, it's appreciated in either case. I can see that Adnoam has beat you to The Crowds of Spite, so you'd better get to it before it's all taken ;)
Aximillio (talk) 21:14, December 31, 2014 (UTC)

Ha, I think between the two of us they'll all be gone shortly.

For the Quirk stuff, as a user I like the tables but they're too much work to keep up to date. I work in source mode normally but I don't quite see how the Austere/Magnanimous sort is implemented.

I'll probably take a whack at the Storylet templates tomorrow.
S'pht (talk) 22:17, December 31, 2014 (UTC)

FYI - Cards - On a Heist is done :-)

Is there any way to search for pages which have both Category:Missing Frequency and Category:Standard Frequency? This will allow to fix those Card pages which still use the Category directly instead of filling in the new Frequency field of the Card template.
Adnoam (talk) 22:26, December 31, 2014 (UTC)

Looks like no, which is part of why we need these Card pages (and can't just make one up that says Category:Cave of Nadir and Category:Cards for example and be done :( ). "Only" 250 tabs or so to open and audit for Missing Frequency cards.
S'pht (talk) 22:37, December 31, 2014 (UTC)

Manually checking those now, will post when I stop.
S'pht (talk) 01:29, January 1, 2015 (UTC)

@Adnaom, I checked all the articles in missing frequency for doubles and corrected those I found. We were down to 200 articles there at a point =)
Aximillio (talk) 02:06, January 1, 2015 (UTC)

@S'pht, to sort the categories you'll need to edit the category links on the individual pages and fill in the field "sort under blahblahblah". If a page is retired this will be sorted as ^, unless something else is entered. So no, it's not optimal.
Aximillio (talk) 02:11, January 1, 2015 (UTC)

The categorization sorting is tricky. For example, look at Category:Christmas 2014. I can't figure out why some links are sorted under "~" while most aren't (I can't see a difference in their "sort under..." fields).

And speaking of which, do we want to remove all the year-specific seasonal categories? Their usage is definitely not consistent.

Thinking about sorting some more, I belive that such sorting categorization is not very effective. The results are confusing and it has significant overhead to manage. I think a more useful approach would be to simply edit the Category page with subsections listing all relevant pages, similar to how it's done in The Broad Unterzee (though for different reasons). All pages would still be listed at the bottom of the category page, sorted alphabetically.
Adnoam (talk) 08:03, January 1, 2015 (UTC)

Adnoam wrote: Thinking about sorting some more, I belive that such sorting categorization is not very effective. The results are confusing and it has significant overhead to manage. I think a more useful approach would be to simply edit the Category page with subsections listing all relevant pages, similar to how it's done in The Broad Unterzee (though for different reasons). All pages would still be listed at the bottom of the category page, sorted alphabetically.

How about a third option, instead of just gain categories, "Caps at 5", "Caps at 10", "Caps at 15" and make use of sub-categories to do the collecting / sorting for us?
S'pht (talk) 12:34, January 1, 2015 (UTC)

I think this will be too inflexible. What happens if we find an action which caps at 12? Let's assume that the current 5,10,15 caps are temporary. Besides the inelegance of creating multiple categories for the odd wierd cap action, it's also a pain to maintain (if the everything capped at 10 changes to 12 we'll have to manually change each of those pages).
Adnoam (talk) 12:42, January 1, 2015 (UTC)

They all have the problem of "if something changes, we must edit". Assuming there's actions with an odd cap (and aren't a bug that FBG wants to know about and fix) we could also have a "Caps at other value" sub-category and mention (and link back to the forums?) the current intention on caps as to why we have things broken down how we do.
S'pht (talk) 12:59, January 1, 2015 (UTC)

I don't think they're going to change in the short term at least. The quirk update was supposed to change all increases to level 5, 10 or 15, and unlocks to 4, 8 and 12. You're right that it's not flexible, though.
Aximillio (talk) 17:22, January 1, 2015 (UTC)

I thought about this a bit more (about changing the sorting rule on each page individually).

Besides being slow to do and very annoying and inflecible to maintain, what would we do with an action which increases one quirk up to one limit, but another quirk up to another limit?

Wouldn't it be easier to leave all pages always sorted alphabetically, but in the special "<Quirk> Gain" category pages (of which there are a limited number), simply add lists/tables to indicate the actions relevant for different caps (as is done, for example, for other category pages which repeat the list of relevant pages, just properly sorted, such as in The Broad Unterzee, or A Boxful of Intrigue)
Adnoam (talk) 22:15, January 14, 2015 (UTC)

I'm not sure there's any multi-quirk raising actions now. I could have missed one of course but the last one I knew of was on the Jack of Smiles card and that became Subtle instead of both.

I agree it's not fun modifying each page, but it still seems less bad than updating a table all the time and I finally saw the raw-mode magic, {{{DEFAULTSORT:X}}} (with one less set of course, can't figure out the escape sequence right now).
S'pht (talk) 23:47, January 14, 2015 (UTC)

Christmas changes

Wow! An impressive massive update to all Christmass related stuff!

I've a quesiton regarding the "Day x:..." Mr Sacks cards: 

1. How do you want to list their frequency? They start Abundant and them become Ubiquitous when new cards become available after a day or two.

2. According to the devs on the forum, the first card ("Day 1:...") is now available as a universal storylet through London for those who haven't played that card yet. Should the page use Storylet or Card templates? Or should we have have two pages and disambiguiation?
Adnoam (talk) 22:49, January 1, 2015 (UTC)

I think we might have to swap between Template:Card and Template:Storylet for these. I think that would be more organised than two pages and retiring the one not active.

On frequency, we either have to swap this, or settle for one of them. As both of them are common, I suggest Abundant. Possibly we should also write an explanation under the Experiencing Strange Times: Twelve Days of Mr Sacks page?
Aximillio (talk) 22:57, January 1, 2015 (UTC)

Is it possible for the Card page to show two lines of "Frequency"? e.g.:

* Occurs with: Abundant Frequency (when it first becomes available)
* Occurs with: Ubiquitous Frequency (two days after it becomes available)
Adnoam (talk) 23:05, January 1, 2015 (UTC)

I guess I could change the template to do that. It would be Frequency2.
Aximillio (talk) 23:09, January 1, 2015 (UTC)

Day 2: A Genial Visit from Mr Sacks? Does that suffice? Note that the Frequency2 line has (after two days) integrated, so if you want to use it for anything else, we'll have to change how it works.
Aximillio (talk) 23:15, January 1, 2015 (UTC)

Btw, there's probably some errors or pages that should have been deleted and such that I haven't spotted, so you know =)
Aximillio (talk) 23:20, January 1, 2015 (UTC)

Hmmm. So this field (in a teamplate used by hundreds of pages) is really specific for just this bunch of 12 Cards. Not ideal.

Also, I'm guessing about the 2 day period. Might be one day - might be three, not sure.

Is it possible to make the field regular text (like the "Locked with" field), so that we can manually enter Standard Frequency, etc. This way we'll be able to add:

|Frequency = Abundant Frequency (initially)

|Frequency2 = Ubiquitous Frequency (two days after it becomes available)

Or even:

|Frequency = Abundant Frequency (initially), and then  Ubiquitous Frequency (two days after it becomes available) But would there be a way to automatically add the Frequency categories to the page in such a way?
Adnoam (talk) 23:24, January 1, 2015 (UTC)

If I make it possible to write more than abundant frequency in the Frequency line, we'd have to add frequency categories manually for all cards. That's not ideal either.

Another possibility is to add a Christmas card template. Perhaps, if we entered {{[[Template:Card|card]]}} in it as well as a frequency 2 field, it would function alike {{[[Template:Card|card]]}} and need no updates? But I don't really want to start using multiple card templates again.

Or we could write it without templates, but then we'd have to update it every time {{[[Template:Card|card]]}} needs an update.

I don't find any really good solutions.
Aximillio (talk) 23:37, January 1, 2015 (UTC)

We could also, obviously just write it in a success summary or something and add the other frequency manually. If we use the unlocked with field and make a new line, we could probably do it that way.
Aximillio (talk) 23:38, January 1, 2015 (UTC)

If we make it that way, it won't disappear if it's made a storylet, though.

Example of card: Day 4: What's the angle?
Aximillio (talk) 23:43, January 1, 2015 (UTC)

Blackwings Absinthe

Hey, I think Open a bottle of Black Wings Absinthe needs to be deleted, the normal page for Black Wings Absinthe covers everything.
S'pht (talk) 13:35, January 2, 2015 (UTC)

Fixed =)
Aximillio (talk) 16:41, January 2, 2015 (UTC)

Template:Storylet 2

Done :)
S'pht (talk) 15:28, January 3, 2015 (UTC)

Great =D
Aximillio (talk) 16:06, January 4, 2015 (UTC)

Special card deck changes - Zee questions

Hi,

So, I've created a separate category for the Cards on the Broad Unterzee and want to do the same for the Sea of Voices (why isn't it the Zee of voices?).

Looking at the page for Category:The Sea of Voices, I see that that a few cards are listed there and also on The Broad Unterzee page: Zailing in style, Good weather for a Zee-Clipper, Submerge and The Fleet of Truth. But all four of these are marked with ??? on the Sea of Voices category page, and they are not linked to that category, as the do for the Broad Unterzee category (just mentioned on the page).

Since it's been a long long time since I've Zailed to the Sea of Voices, do you know if these 4 cards belong there? Should I add them to the new Cards category I'm creating for the Sea of Voices? Or should they be removed form this category page?
Adnoam (talk) 21:20, January 4, 2015 (UTC)

It's a long time since I travelled there last too. I think we don't include them for now, and add them if we spot them. It's harder to disprove their existence than to prove their existence.
Aximillio (talk) 15:44, January 5, 2015 (UTC)

FYI - all special deck locations I could think of are now done. :-)

If you think of any more please let me know.
Adnoam (talk) 08:57, January 13, 2015 (UTC)

Trimming text

Hi,

While trimming texts, sometimes the only reason the text passes the 250 character boundary is because it includes a line of game instruction which should properly be in the Game Instruction field of the template, and not in the Description field.

Example: Off to the Forgotten Quarter

If I make such an update, should I still add the Trimmed category to the page? Or is it not needed in this case, since there's no need from an administrator to recreate the page without the original offending text?
Adnoam (talk) 12:17, January 12, 2015 (UTC)

It's unnecessary if you don't remove any text. I would say the same if the only edit was a very, very short word to make it from like 252 characters to 250. Anything more than that should get the trimmed category, though.
Aximillio (talk) 14:57, January 12, 2015 (UTC)

Seeking cards

Should Seeking Mr Eaten cards be marked as Retired until the content returns?

Some are (A banner with a strange device), most are not.
Adnoam (talk) 08:33, January 20, 2015 (UTC)

Yes. Sorry for my late absence. I've had to focus a lot more on school lately, and I'll probably disappear and reappear from now on onwards, so you're aware.
Aximillio (talk) 16:12, February 2, 2015 (UTC)

Wedding Guests

Hi, uh...random anon here. This page: The Wedding Guests was really useful to me, until it suddenly vanished. What happened?
128.252.48.21 01:20, January 21, 2015 (UTC)

Wikia did something odd there. I ran a purge on it and it looks OK now.
Jemann (talk) 02:49, January 21, 2015 (UTC)

Trimmed pages important milestone

As of right now, the number of Trimmed pages is, for the first time, greater than the number of pages marked for Immediate Review. :-)

We'll get them all yet!
Adnoam (talk) 18:07, February 5, 2015 (UTC)

That number's been climbing a lot faster lately than earlier. It's definitely inspiring =)
Aximillio (talk) 17:30, February 6, 2015 (UTC)

New art

Hi.

What's the proper and effective way to incorporate the new images in the wiki? (after the new images are uploaded to the wiki, of course). There has to be lots of places linking to the old images.
Adnoam (talk) 22:54, February 10, 2015 (UTC)

As these aren't new images, but rather new versions of old images, the wiki will do that automatically after a short while. So we don't have to do a thing =)
Aximillio (talk) 15:37, February 11, 2015 (UTC)

If you see any pages that don't update after a few days, you can add ?action=purge at the end of the url to refresh the page. This isn't limited to images, and works for templates and other things that use some time to update as well =)
Aximillio (talk) 15:40, February 11, 2015 (UTC)

But doesn't the wiki hold its own copy of images? So in a case of new art, even for existing images, they should be uploaded manually to the wiki, right?
Adnoam (talk) 16:46, February 11, 2015 (UTC)

Yes, save the files and re-upload them.
Aximillio (talk) 18:07, February 11, 2015 (UTC)

Redirect template

I've been trying to keep things contistent in the various storylets redirected from The Feast of the Rose! page.

Most storylets from this page use a standalone text indicating "--> linked storylet...", e.g. A mysterious envelope 2014.

But very few use the (cleaner) Redirect template, e.g. Seek advice from Madame Shoshana

The problem is that the Redirect template uses the "Redirects To" field as a name of a page to which it should link. This doesn't allow the usual trick of providing a link but overriding the link's name. So, for example, I can't use the Redirect template to link to: "A mysterious envelope".

Any suggestions?

I guess we can change the template to not assume that the field contains a full link name of another page, and modify the currently 93 pages using this template accordingly by adding "" and "" tags in their Redirects To field.
Adnoam (talk) 12:54, February 15, 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I think that might be the best suggestion. In this case, I think we can also merge Seek advice from Madame Shoshana 2 and Seek advice from Madame Shoshana, because the other option is retired. We'll have to mention it in the 2013 section on the historical page, though; because this is a change that is reflected on a lot of other cards as well.
Aximillio (talk) 16:25, February 15, 2015 (UTC)

Another suggestion:

Would it work to add a new (optional) field in the Redirect template, containing the text to display in the link?

So, the "Redirects to" field can still be "A mysterious envelope 2014(2)", and the new field would be "A mysterious envelope" as the display text. This won't break existing usages of this template.
Adnoam (talk) 17:48, February 15, 2015 (UTC)

The new optional field is |Appearance
Aximillio (talk) 18:31, February 15, 2015 (UTC)

The {{[[Template:Redirect|Redirect]]}} template works, but the action version might not...
Aximillio (talk) 18:33, February 15, 2015 (UTC)

Seems to work great. What do you mean by the action version?
Adnoam (talk) 19:12, February 15, 2015 (UTC)

There's an option to use a redirect field in the action template as well; this removes success title and such entirely.
Aximillio (talk) 19:35, February 15, 2015 (UTC)

While on the subject of updating all this pages for the Feast:

Should we add the Rose template to all related action pages as well? Currently this is mosty specified only for the Template/Card pages.
Adnoam (talk) 20:22, February 15, 2015 (UTC)

One of the points of that template is that it makes the pages sort as retired pages, which can be useful for the rest of the year when finding item uses/sources. So I think that's a yes.
Aximillio (talk) 20:35, February 15, 2015 (UTC)

Yeah - I was  just thinking that when the Feast is over there has to be a way to auto-mark all pages with the Rose template with the Retired template
Adnoam (talk) 20:47, February 15, 2015 (UTC)

As long as they have the rose-template and are available during the event, they don't need the retired template.
Aximillio (talk) 22:02, February 15, 2015 (UTC)

Aximillio wrote:

There's an option to use a redirect field in the action template as well; this removes success title and such entirely.

I was now playing with the Redirect field of the Action tempalte - more approprioate for an action which redirects than the Redirect template itself (as it hides the needless and empty Success section of the action).

Can you add a new optional field to the Action template - "Redirect Appearance", to serve the same purpse for Actions?
Adnoam (talk) 09:21, March 5, 2015 (UTC)

It's done. There's also a field called Title Appearance, which should change how From Card/Storylet links appear.
Aximillio (talk) 21:32, March 5, 2015 (UTC)

Hi,

how would you suggest to handle "From:" links such as on Cold Feet? 1?
80.128.197.13 11:43, April 18, 2015 (UTC)

Cold Feet? 1?

That being Cold feet? 1
80.128.197.13 11:44, April 18, 2015 (UTC)

Read the latest comments on...

Is it just me, or is the excessive commenting bugging anyone else?
Jemann (talk) 04:09, March 24, 2015 (UTC)

It's not just you. Most of it is clatter. Just saying "this option is not worth it" adds nothing to documenting the option (which is what a wiki is about) and doesn't really faciilite discussion (especially without explanation or details).

Discussing whether an action is worth it or not should be on FBG's forums, not on a wiki (and even moreso on a non-official, fan-maintained wiki).

Perhaps create a new wiki guide of "actions not worth it according to user X" and put all of this there in a single page? :-)
Adnoam (talk) 11:27, March 24, 2015 (UTC)

Well, I'm deleting some of the more pointless comments for now. Will see whether that has any effect.

I kind of like the idea of archiving comments by some odd scheme of our own. Seems suitably meta while also being in character for we Factotums.

Edit: and possibly I will start responding to mechanical complaints in a more story-based fashion. In which case I suppose I'm only exacerbating the problem, but it's fun, dammit!
Jemann (talk) 12:45, March 24, 2015 (UTC)

Location limited opportunity cards

Hi there!

Do you think it's a good idea to make subcategories for cards that appear only in a certain area? Took me a while where to find this information, and I know now that it appears on some location pages. But the first place I looked was the Card category page and there were several subcategories but not this, I think it might be more intuitive to find for some people (like me ^^).
Pattern in Chaos (talk) 17:56, April 14, 2015 (UTC)

In London there's this category: Location-specific cards in London.

For places outside London which have a card deck, there are specific categories for each (e.g. Cards - The Broad Unterzee )
Adnoam (talk) 23:49, April 14, 2015 (UTC)

Oh thanks, I haven't seen that first page yet, maybe then tag it with Category: Cards so it appears as a subcategory on that category page?
Pattern in Chaos (talk) 16:51, April 15, 2015 (UTC)

It's a sub-category of Category:Card Locations, which is itself a sub-category of Category:Cards.
Adnoam (talk) 08:23, April 17, 2015 (UTC)

Adnoam wrote: It's a sub-category of Category:Card Locations, which is itself a sub-category of Category:Cards.

I see, thanks!
Pattern in Chaos (talk) 11:35, April 17, 2015 (UTC)

Wiki logo

To copypasta a question I left at the watercooler a while ago:

Is anyone going to update the wiki-wordmark.png file to say "2010-2015"? -- Speeth (talk) 18:31, March 19, 2015 (UTC)
Speeth (talk) 18:14, April 21, 2015 (UTC)

Storylet_1 replacement finished

Hi, the {{Storylet 1}} template should be ready for removal now.
Achris (talk) 21:40, April 26, 2015 (UTC)

Helping to Make Infoboxes Mobile Friendly

Hey Aximollio and Echo Bazaar folks! We’re reaching out to a few of our top communities, hoping to get you on board with the migration to the new infobox markup. And we have tools to help!

‘’’Why we’re doing this’’'

Simply put: Most current infobox structure translates very poorly to mobile experiences, and indeed any device that doesn’t use desktop-style displays. On desktops and laptops, they often look amazing. The problem is that Wikia’s traffic is trending mobile.

There is an important graph from our forum post about infoboxes a couple weeks back, and I want to share it here as well:

Mobile is the future. Not just for Wikia, but for the web as a whole. Take a look at the recent trends and future growth predictions for mobile traffic - it's staggering.

We partnered with the Wikia community to create this new markup to make sure that your hard work can be displayed on mobile devices (as well as any future technologies) easily and without any new coding conventions. It’ll take some effort up front, to be sure, but we’re here to help, and the work you put in now will pay for itself tenfold in the future.

‘’’Tools we’ve designed to ease the process’’’

We’ve enabled two new features on your community. One is a tool for migrating the “old” infobox code to the new markup. It identifies templates on your wikia that look like infobox templates and places a box on the right rail of the template page. When you click the “Generate draft markup” button in this box, it opens a new tab containing a draft of your infobox using the new markup.

The second is a new feature on Special:Insights that will highlight which infoboxes on your wikia have not been migrated to the new infobox markup. It’s fairly intuitive - you can click on the infobox title link itself to see the old markup, or simply click the “Convert!” button on the right, which performs the same action as the “Generate draft markup” button.

This is our help page for the new markup. I’ll help get things rolling by converting a template or two as an example if you’d like me to, as well as watching this forum post for any questions.
Alwaysmore2hear (talk) 22:45, July 22, 2015 (UTC)

Hey there, just checking in on this ^^^ let me know if you have any questions, concerns, comments, etc. Hope you had a nice weekend!
Alwaysmore2hear (talk) 19:57, July 27, 2015 (UTC)

Hello, Have you actually checked whether any such infobox is used by the respective communities? The lack of response here may very well be caused by the fact that this wikia does not use infoboxes of any kind. In fact, I only checked this message because a nonsensical and apparently dysfunctional message appears whenever I edit templates, and I'd love to get rid of it :)

On a somewhat related note, is there a way of disabling wikia's mobile skin? It's completely messing up our pages and the end result is incredibly far away from the experience you're trying to build.
Achris (talk) 01:50, July 31, 2015 (UTC)

You are absolutely correct, there are no infoboxes on this community. I apologize for that. But it's good awareness for all users to know about wikia in general, so the post isn't totally useless! For the mobile skin question and the dysfunctional message appearance question, please head over to Special:Contact, just so we can keep things streamlined here and that the right person can get you the help you're looking for. Happy Friday!
Alwaysmore2hear (talk) 17:35, July 31, 2015 (UTC)

A newbie's question on templates

Hi Aximillio,

I'm loving the work gone into this wiki and refer to it often. However, as a newbie I've noticed that at a first glance (and sometimes even a second or third) it's hard to tell if a page is refering to a Card, a Storylet, an Item, or something else. It may be because I am getting ahead of myself (self-confessed link-surfing addict), but as you've all done so well with the templates I was wondering it it would help to have a generic category phrase (eg. 'A Bronze Opportunity Card.' or 'A Golden Storylet.') before the description.

Of course time has made me a total n00b at hi-tech wiki work (it all used to be so simple!) so I may have overlooked an OBVIOUS sign somewhere that shows what the page refers to (other than the category box at the bottom of course). The n00biness is also the reason for my paranoid questioning rather than just going for it and editing the templates (which I'm more than happy to do). 

Anyhow, let me know if you think it's a reasonable idea or a brain-fart ^_^

Ta,

Lady Zah.
Lady Zahlefeel (talk) 09:11, November 4, 2015 (UTC)

Renown Rewards

Hello! 

I've updated the Renown: Rubbery Men with the latest reward information.

Send me a message if you have any thoughts on the format.

I'll continue updating the other Renown pages with Docks being next.
GeorgeEarlslight (talk) 14:00, November 16, 2016 (UTC)

RS acc delete

your rs acc has been deleted, just a note left of you on the #xxxxxxxx code :(
86.115.212.218 02:22, December 16, 2017 (UTC)

You were my friend, i'll miss you. Hope its good for you now
86.115.212.218 02:23, December 16, 2017 (UTC)

Welcome back!!

It's been a long time...
Adnoam (talk) 05:47, August 16, 2018 (UTC)

It has indeed! It seems like you've done a good job with the wiki =)
Aximillio (talk) 15:35, August 16, 2018 (UTC)

We've tried keeping it together in your absence :-)
Adnoam (talk) 18:11, August 16, 2018 (UTC)

Welcome back!
Asarta (talk) 08:48, December 17, 2020 (UTC)

[please delete]
Asarta (talk) 08:49, December 17, 2020 (UTC)

Discord

If you use Discord, could you send me a message at Tephra#2372 There is something I wish to discuss with you in private.
Tephra (talk) 22:33, December 21, 2020 (UTC)

Personal sandbox

Hi! I’m fairly new to this wiki (and Fallen London in general), but I have a decent amount of experience with other Fandom wikis and wanted to do some experimentation with the templates here. I know Sandbox exists, but if I want to do some testing on a less cluttered page, is it okay if I make a subpage of my user page and use that? I’ve seen it done on other wikis, but I’m not sure what the policy is here.
Everlastingwonder (talk) 20:57, February 25, 2021 (UTC)

Feel free to make one, some of us have made several =)
Aximillio (talk) 21:49, February 25, 2021 (UTC)

Awesome, thanks!
Everlastingwonder (talk) 22:49, February 25, 2021 (UTC)

Bot Approval for User:Ebzfan

Hi! As we discussed off-wiki, I’d like to use User:Ebzfan as a bot account to make the changes en masse to page images without flooding RecentChanges.
Alanhuang122 (talk) 17:07, March 4, 2021 (UTC)

Sounds like a good idea! Permission granted from the wiki admins.
Aximillio (talk) 17:09, March 4, 2021 (UTC)

New global policy

I want to draw your attention to a new global policy going into effect at the start of April.

Local blocks will be required to have reasons related to publicly-defined wiki rules or Fandom Terms of Use. The focus here is fostering a culture of clear rule-setting and understandable consequences, rather than users getting banned for unknown or unfair reasons. For 99% of admins, the only change might be surfacing your wiki’s rules more prominently or setting some clear ones for the first time. Fandom does not provide a platform for bullying or abuse of power, and this policy is a further embodiment of that commitment to our communities.

https://community.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:MisterWoodhouse/Introducing_the_Wiki_Rules_and_Blocking_Policy

Let me know when that is done so that I can note that your community conforms to that new policy.

Thanks!
MannedTooth (talk) 11:09, March 13, 2021 (UTC)

The editing guidelines are both linked to from the front page and on the navigation bar under wiki.
Aximillio (talk) 18:54, March 20, 2021 (UTC)

Hey there! These are editing guidelines, while this new policy is about having rules of what warrants blocks on the wiki, not how to format its content. Take a look at the example provided on the link I added.

Thanks!
MannedTooth (talk) 19:51, March 20, 2021 (UTC)

So, basically, what we need to do is to copy the most important rules from the editing guidelines page to a separate page called rules and link that to the home page? Fallen London is a text based game, and several of the editing guidelines are actual rules, due to potential copyright infringement. Are the examples you’re referring to from this page? https://community.fandom.com/wiki/Help:Wiki_Rules_and_Blocking_Policy
Aximillio (talk) 23:35, March 20, 2021 (UTC)

Yes, you need to set rules for your wiki that will define what warrants as a blockable offense. Following this, you won’t be allowed to block a user that didn’t infringe a rule on this page. If you don’t have or want to write rules, you can just copy the example provided at that example.
MannedTooth (talk) 04:35, March 21, 2021 (UTC)

The Monthly Opt-In and Invitation

Hello there!

If you haven’t already and are interested, make sure you opt-in for emails about The Monthly. There should be an email with info on that.

If you have opted in, be on the lookout for a new email about March’s Monthly times and the new survey! Will has been making some tweaks to the event this month and he’s excited to have you join him, if you can.
MannedTooth (talk) 19:23, March 17, 2021 (UTC)